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4 years ago ::
Nov 11, 2009 - 10:15PM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Well maybe not share Temp HP but maybe give out defense bonus to adjacent allies? Sorta like they use their bodies as shield (maybe make it a feat, when you grant an ally cover against an attack that attack takes an additional -1 penalty to it!). Rerouting attacks toward them too.
Hmm I hadn't thought of the resilient one as the more mobile one because of its anti-AoO properties... nice idea there.
Yeah it does feel a bit Barbarian-style but if you can find some interesting design space to fill it could be fun.
I love Horseshoecrabfolk.
What I love most about them is that they seem to be the one thing that we all can agree on.
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4 years ago ::
Nov 12, 2009 - 10:33AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jun 20, 2009
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What do you think of a con primary?
Think of it like this: the more naturally resilient an individual is, the more surgery he'll be able to handle, since his vitals are stronger, and he heals better afterwards for less downtime and so the more of his body would be able to be replaced. Much as the swordmage's attacks are determined by magical ability as opposed to strength (which is still valuable as a secondary) a Steamborg's attacks would be determined by the quality and pervasiveness of his implants, which would be based on his Con.
I'd rather see something a little different than another strength primary defender is all, and we need some con primarys IMO.
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4 years ago ::
Nov 12, 2009 - 11:09AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Nov 12, 2005
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What do you think of a con primary?
Think of it like this: the more naturally resilient an individual is, the more surgery he'll be able to handle, since his vitals are stronger, and he heals better afterwards for less downtime and so the more of his body would be able to be replaced. Much as the swordmage's attacks are determined by magical ability as opposed to strength (which is still valuable as a secondary) a Steamborg's attacks would be determined by the quality and pervasiveness of his implants, which would be based on his Con.
I'd rather see something a little different than another strength primary defender is all, and we need some con primarys IMO.
I actually had been debating CON primary (in fact, the 3.5 class was CON primary), but I thought the whole constitution/hit points thing might be too great a benefit. But I do like it, and your logic was exactly the thought behind the 3.5 steamborg. So maybe I will do it.
And Undave, I like the idea of My Body as a Shield (power name?). I could see it being a power or a feat. As a power it would be a little more significant of an ability. IIRC, the fighter or paladin gets a power like that. So yeah, steamborgs will get something like that. As one of the leader-ish defender powers, how about this one? It's a daily utility that grants you temporary hit points, and allies within 10 squares regeneration 2 as long as your temp hp remain. Or maybe it should be as long as you're not bloodied. If I go with temp hp, it may be as long as you have temp hp, regardless of source. Very much along the idea that your amazing fortitude inspires your allies to keep on fighting. I've gone to this a couple of times, but it's the comfort of having such an unstoppable ally.
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4 years ago ::
Nov 12, 2009 - 11:16PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2009
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I had been thinking that you should do the other roles as steam power source classes.
the even more terminator like striker class a controler that shoots steam clouds and the like.
My biggest problem so far, was, why should replacing parts with metal make you into an agressive proactive bodyguard.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs.
The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.
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4 years ago ::
Nov 13, 2009 - 8:49AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2008
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And Bait-hammer, isn't it a deterent to not want to give your enemy a power up? It's an odd take, but I like it. And why can't more machine-like things get temp hp? That's exactly how they're explaining warforged toughness.
Not really if I can take out your healer /controller or Dps and then play keep away until your power wears off. ( Besides the effect your going after is covered under striker, eg Retribution Avengers.) Warforged aren't strictly mechanical, there internals are made out of wood fiber. As this is a class, you should be thinking of at least two variations and three stats.
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4 years ago ::
Nov 16, 2009 - 1:29PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Nov 12, 2005
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Sea-Envy, there will in fact be more steam classes coming. The coglayer is a leader, secondary controller. Really just a refluffed artificer, so I probably won't create a whole new class. The mech jockey is a striker and presents a whole slew of problems - I'll cross that bridge later. But basically the idea is to make mechs work a little bit like figurines of wondrous power, with hit points, attack capabilities, and mech jockeys spending healing surges to keep their hp up to par. A mech jockey uses their actions to control the mech, and they have a few "dead" power levels, where mech jockeys don't learn any encounter, daily, or utility powers. Instead, all mechs have powers of those levels, and only mech jockeys can use them. So it all works out the same, but the mech jockey gains access to them based on choice of mech, not based on level up.
As for why being part machine makes you a good bodyguard, why does being able to cast spells while fighting with a sword make you a good bodyguard? That's the one problem with roles in 4e: it becomes so hard to play outside of class type. I miss wizards in the leader role. You just can't yet mimic all that bull's strength, stoneskin, and hasting. Ok, so you can cast those spells, but you can't make it central to your combat style. You'd have to play a bard or artificer.
Ok Bait-hammer. I see your point. However, I was trying to push the boundaries, try a new approach at achieving the same goal. I hear PH3 will do a lot of that. I have three builds and three stats, discussed previously: Gadgeteer, Strongarm, and Unbreakable. Stats: Con, Str, and Int. Con primary, Int for gadgeteer, Str for Strongarm, and Str for Unbreakable.
I'll admit that warforged aren't mechanical, but they have the same sort of not-completely living resilience. Let's not mince words over technicalities, there's a similarity that's worth playing up. Especially since I'm trying to keep the steamborg adaptable to non-steampunk settings as a "half-golem," using 3.5 terms. The golem equivalent of a cyborg works just as well in lower-tech settings. And in that case the comparison to warforged is more obviously accurate.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2009 - 6:07PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2008
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I generally like the idea of powering up the Defender for a mark punishment instead of just dealing damage or attacking (non-Assault Swordmages have alternate effects as well but that's another story). I'd question giving the defender temporary hit points as a mark punishment however.
While the idea may work thematically, what you're really doing is discouraging the enemy from hitting the defender if you give them temporary hit points. Giving the defender a damage bonus would do a much better job at fulfilling the basic concept of a mark punishment.
A mark punishment should always give the monster more incentive to hit the defender, not less (or some less, some more).
I wouldn't necessarily kill the idea though. Battlerager Fighters can also gain temporary hit points for applying their mark punishment if memory serves, so it isn't altogether unheard of. I'd recommend keeping the number of temporary hit points low, however, if you decide to keep it around. Ability score modifier is more than enough.
D&D rules were never meant to exist without the presence of a DM. RAW is a lie.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 06, 2009 - 8:22PM
#18
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2007
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What about a Controler-Defender that imposes status effects if anyone ignores his mark?
You could add some encounter powers or utilities as Immediate actions, or as free actions, that power up the mark when triggered.
I think this would work really well as a psionic defender. Random idea below:
Class Feature: Psi-Mark
Close Burst 2; minor action
Mark the enemy.
Class Feature: Psi-Punishment
Immediate Interrupt
If makes an attack that doesn't include you, you may [daze*] it.
Punishing Mark (Utility 2; Daily)
As a foe attacks your ally, you muddle its mind with a powerful psychic attack
Immediate Interrupt
Trigger: Marked enemy triggers your Psi-Punishment.
Attack:
Hit: The enemy takes some damage and is stunned
Multi-Punishment (Utility 2; Encounter)
This lets you punish two marked enemies in a single turn!
Free Action
Trigger: Marked eney triggers your psi-punishment
You may [daze*] the enemy.
*Replace Daze with your choice of status effect: Weakened, Restrained, Immobolized, etc.
Probably not balanced or worded correctly, but I think you get the idea.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 07, 2009 - 3:16AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Jul 15, 2008
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I posted some idea for the Steamborg and the Mechjokey classes inn 4th ed. on the oficial dragonmech forum the last year (forum name: Alyss). EDIT: find it! www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.p...The tread cntain some of my ideas 
Actually Play'ng:
Nothing. My old party is full of short-sighted racists and sexists (on their own admission), so I left.
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3 years ago ::
Dec 15, 2009 - 1:01PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Nov 12, 2005
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I see this thread continued to net some ideas since I last visited. I'm busy bogged down with finals and grad school applications right now, but in a week or so I'll be freer and working on this again - with some extra incentive, as it sounds like come spring I'll be DMing a DragonMech game, and one player is interested in playing an Unbreakable steamborg. So I know where I'll be starting.
EDIT: And as another little addition I'll be making, one that draws a little bit on psionics previews: steam weapons. They're a new group of weapons (as opposed to simple or military) that have an at-will power associated with them. However, to use the at-will, you need to expend fuel, which is handled as a consumable. They're ways you could modify basic attacks (or something. I haven't decided for sure yet). With feats, you could instead augment at-will and later encounter powers.
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