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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 11:52AM
#1
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How can a Wizard who MCs as a Warlock use a staff with his Warlock powers? It looks by RAW that he wouldn't be allowed to take Arcane Implement Proficiency feat since it says: "Choose a kind of implement associated with any arcane class other than your own." It seems to me that that phrase probably isn't there for any balance issues, but rather to help explain that it's giving you proficiency with an implement you don't already have. Also the Character Builder seems to let you pick AIP (Staff) even if you're a wizard. Is there any other "legal" way for this character to use a staff with Warlock powers? EDIT: Wait, I just though of something. Could this character just choose Artificer (or some other class that uses Staff implements)? It seems like that would probably work.
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 12:22PM
#2
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There is really no good reason for the "other than your own" clause in Arcane Implement Proficiency -- all it does is interfere with multiclassing. If you're playing in a home game, I suggest that you talk to the DM and house rule Arcane Implement Proficiency to remove the restriction. By RAW, though, if your two arcane classes don't already share an implement type, your only option is to take Arcane Implement Proficiency and select an implement not used by either class (for example, light blades for a Warlock/Wizard). If you make an Artificer/Wizard instead of a Warlock/Wizard, then yes, you will be able to use a staff for powers of both classes.
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 12:25PM
#3
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You would take Arcane Implement Proficiency (Staff) to do this. The "other than your own" is referring to warlock in this case, since you're trying to add a new implement option to that class list. Arcane Implement Proficiency (Orb) would let you use orbs with your warlock powers, and you'd have to take Arcane Implement Proficieny (Rod) to use rods with your wizard powers.
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 12:43PM
#4
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AIP only cares about which class you grab an implement type from, not what implement type you choose. Staff is perfectly legal because the artificer can use a staff and you are not an artificer.
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 12:44PM
#5
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The "other than your own" is referring to warlock in this case, since you're trying to add a new implement option to that class list.
Unfortunately, according to Customer Support, that is not the case.
I have asked several times, and their response was consistent each time: if a multiclassed character takes Arcane Implement Proficiency, he must select an implement that neither of his classes can currently use. I dislike the ruling and would prefer Neutronium_Dragon's interpretation, but official sources unfortunately don't see it that way.
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 12:48PM
#6
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Unfortunately, according to Customer Support, that is not the case.
I have asked several times, and their response was consistent each time: if a multiclassed character takes Arcane Implement Proficiency, he must select an implement that neither of his classes can currently use.
I dislike the ruling and would prefer Neutronium_Dragon's interpretation, but official sources unfortunately don't see it that way.
That ruling does not fit RAW. If you MC Warlock, you are not a Warlock. You are only treated as a Warlock for the purpose of meeting prerequisites. The Benefit text of AIP has nothing to do with prerequisites.
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 1:00PM
#7
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For the curious, there is an extended thread on the topic in the Arcane Power errata forum [here].
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 2:17PM
#8
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Thanks for the link. Do you have any reference to CustServ actually explaining how they think the feat works? The one you posted in the other thread didn't really say anything other than that the CB might be wrong.
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 2:47PM
#9
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I think this is a classic case where both the Character Builder and Customer Service are erroneous. RAW, there is little use in denying that so long as the implement you are picking with you Arcane Implement Proficiency (AP 124) is not one from your primary class, it would become usable with all your Implement Keyword powers, as a result of your multiclass. So yet again, we are plagued with incorrect answers given by official sources, further contributing to the common sentiment on these boards, that if CB or CustServ say something, likely it is the exact opposite of the truth. I too, would love to see CustServ attempt to get around PHB 208, which states only that multiclassing feats make it so the character "counts as a member of that class for the purpose of meeting prerequisites for taking other feats and qualifying for paragon paths". And, quite frankly, there are about 10 or 12 people whom I would trust over nearly any ruling of either CB or CustServ from their posts on these boards. Suo happens to be a poster who is correct with rules and their interpretations nearly every time he posts. -TheNative
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5 months ago ::
Nov 03, 2009 - 3:07PM
#10
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Thanks for the link. Do you have any reference to CustServ actually explaining how they think the feat works?
Sure, here's my original correspondence. While I disagree with the official response, it still carries weight for RPGA games. If CS has reversed their opinion on this (as they've done with the staff issue, for example), I would be glad to hear it.
Q: The way it is written, Arcane Implement Proficiency does not take into account multiclass characters. I would like some clarification as to which implements a multiclass arcane character can select with this feat.
Suppose I have a multiclass Swordmage/Wizard. Which of the following versions of the feat can I select?
1) Arcane Implement Proficiency (rod)
2) Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blades)
3) Arcane Implement Proficiency (staff)
4) Arcane Implement Proficiency (dagger)
Thanks. A: The way multiclassing works is that you gain access to your multiclass feats as if you were a full-fledged member of that class.
Thus, if you've got a Swordmage who has multiclassed into Wizard (using Arcane Initiate), you will naturally be able to use orbs, staves, wands, light blades, and heavy blades. If you really want to use a rod, you could then select the Arcane Implement Proficiency as a feat and take Rod (as it is an implement associated with the Warlock class).
Hope this helps! Jason
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