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Nov 2, 2009 -- 10:34PM, Maxperson wrote:

If it's not combat, power loss is fairly meaningless.

Wizard: "Doh!  I can't do magic, so now I can't help negotiate with the Prince!"

That's so true, so because Bards and Warlocks don't have any powers that assist them in social interactions and no Wizard utility power would ever be useful in sneaking about.

su⋅per⋅nat⋅u⋅ral

Adjective

In my opinion, number 1 applies to martial characters, especially at higher levels. I compare them to the real world equivalents, and then it is clear that they are supernatural in their might and skill. They don't have to use any external influence to get their powers to work though, they just have such superior training that they exceed any non-heroic (thus mundane) warrior's skills and capabilities.

And what does it matter anyway. You could still make an anti-martial powersource field that would work in similar way to an anti-magic field. Anti-magic is just something we are used to from the previous editions, so it is more difficult to get used to the idea that there might be "anti-anything else" also.

There actually are some effects in one pre-published adventure (I think the pyramid of shadows or whatever is the name) which cause an effect on the character that prevents the use of encounter and daily powers (save ends). I see the potential anti-magic thingy working in a similar way.

Also, reading up the discussion, I thougth of a really funny idea for an encounter. There is a "chessboard" like construction where a fight takes place. Each powersource has only a few squares where the powers of that source work (the PC has to stand in that square to start an action that uses a power of his source). Other powers don't work at all. That could be really amusing, since the position would have even more meaning beyond the usual flanking and such tactics.

Anyway, in general it is bad to come up with world spanning things that penalize one powersource over all others, like a world with significant dead magic zones. I'd be a lot more willing to add something like wild magic though, which would cause random side-effects without preventing the use of the powers.

Nov 3, 2009 -- 12:04AM, Rothe wrote:

su⋅per⋅nat⋅u⋅ral

Adjective

1.	of, pertaining to, or being above or beyond what is natural; unexplainable by natural law or phenomena; abnormal.

In my opinion, number 1 applies to martial characters, especially at higher levels.

'Preternatural' would probably be a better word to describe martial powers.  There's a lot of skill, daring, and luck involved, but what they do is generally increadible or improbable rather than absolutely impossible.

Of course, what's 'natural law' in a fantasy world?  Depending on the background of the campaign world, Primal powers might be perfectly 'natural' for instance.  Plenty of sci-fi settings possit psionic powers that are explainable by science, not 'supernatural,' at all, just exceptional.  Divine powers would presumably generally fall under one of the other definitions, though, and Arcane wouldn't be that arcane if it were wholly natural.

Nov 3, 2009 -- 12:07AM, Maxperson wrote:

Nov 2, 2009 -- 11:02PM, AesclealM wrote:

Nov 2, 2009 -- 10:34PM, Maxperson wrote:

If it's not combat, power loss is fairly meaningless.

Wizard: "Doh!  I can't do magic, so now I can't help negotiate with the Prince!"

That's so true, so because Bards and Warlocks don't have any powers that assist them in social interactions and no Wizard utility power would ever be useful in sneaking about.

Are you trying to make a point?  Perhaps the point you meant to make was that the bard, warlock and wizard still do perfectly fine in non-combat situations, even if they can't use their powers.  That must have been it.  Surely you wouldn't be so foolish as to try and equate a minor inconvenience to loss of powers in a combat situation.

Of course, how could I have been so stupid to think that loosing +5 to a skill check in one area a character shines in is a minor inconvenience. Anyone would think that it was something central to the character in the case of Bards. Excuse me, I'm off to scrub all the trained skills off my Bard's character sheet...

If a player has made a choice about how he or she wants to play their character then it's a bit much to say that invalidating that choice is a minor inconvenience. Kill magic off for Bards and suddenly not only have you wiped them in combat but you've nutted one class feature and possibly some decent utility powers that are used in skill challenges to boot. Words of Friendship, Inspire Competence, Veil - all knackered.