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Alternate Histories in DS
5 months ago  ::  Oct 27, 2009 - 10:47PM #1
Raddu76
Posts: 85
Date Joined: 03/14/08

Instead of advancing a metaplot by way of having events take place, how about revealing the past a bit by bit.  And making those bits conflict with each other so there's no definitive answer. Have each "history" be subject to that particular story.


Even though there's only going to (3?) books for the setting, Players Guide, Campaign Guide, & Main adventure (right?), there will still be suppletmental information in Dragon and adventures in Dungeon where these alternate histories can be shown.


There's some example of this in the history already...are/were there ever gods on Athas?  That is debatable.  Good..keep it that way.


What are other reasons for historical debates and alternate histories?


The sorcerer-kings....in the Orginal Boxed Set we don't know anything about them..no champions, nothing.  Where did they come from?


If defiling hurts the land...why is so much of it defiled? Who would do that?


Where'd all the gnomes, orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, trolls, ogres, & other "missing" races go?


 


What are some other historical questions left open in the Original Boxed Set?


 

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5 months ago  ::  Oct 28, 2009 - 2:24AM #2
Phoenix_M
Posts: 440
Date Joined: 06/21/05

Bodach, Kalidnay and Yaramuke? Three large and abandon cities with no explination.

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5 months ago  ::  Oct 28, 2009 - 11:48AM #3
Pennarin
Posts: 4,767
Date Joined: 04/12/03

Interesting concept: to offer DMs alternate past events that all lead to the current state of the world.


Frankly, people on these boards have been more ineterested in changing the past than the future metaplot.

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5 months ago  ::  Oct 29, 2009 - 11:34AM #4
guyka
Posts: 3
Date Joined: 10/29/09

I've also thought about this theme (of inquiring athas' condition and past) as a motivation for an adventuring group (not that Athas doesn't provide enough adventure motivations).


When I read lynn abbey's notes, she marked the inconsistency of 1,000 or 2,000 years of SK reign, and then I though, that it's actually doesn't matter if the SK were rulling for 1,000 or 2,000 or just 500 years: The SK can say anything, as long as no one remember the past; and the short life span in Athas, as well as the lack of long-lasting oral (no to mention written) traditions [due to the high rates of death and slavery] make the past forgotten by all.


That doesn't mean that there aren't myths and allegedly historic facts (resulting in alternative and contrasting agendas): Some praise the SK as the creator of universe, while some praise the SK as the defender of society, Two undead gaints claim that the SK are evil, genocidial racists. Some will claim the world were always waste and desert, and some will claim that it was lush and green, some nuts will even say that the world were a big ocean! I can even imagine some cults who worship Magic because of its destructive nature....


So you can throw upon the character pieces of alternative history, from the novels, from the forum, and from your own mind, and let them think for themselves what is the "true" history, and what caused Athas to be the world it is.

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5 months ago  ::  Oct 30, 2009 - 6:04AM #5
turlough
Posts: 91
Date Joined: 02/28/02

I just finished Rise and Fall of a Dragon King and I have to say that, to me, it's a great example of alternate history. I liked the book fine but the later official RPG sources don't credit it as canon. It has some neat ideas, though. 


**SPOILERS IF YOU HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK**


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


Sorcerers (I think this is used as a term for wizards in general) could become immortal on their own and rule a city. 


It was Borys, when turned into the dragon, who caused most of the devastation to the world.  Actually, this brings up too many questions for me.  Why is the Tablelands hardest hit?  In fact, if he spent a century in the area of the Tablelands, why isn't it *harder* hit? 


Back to the book, according to it, Kalak, a non champion immortal sorcerer king, attacked Urik for some reason and in the ensuing battle, defiled most of the land around the city.  It was this that destroyed the land around Urik.


Kalak also managed to trick Wyan and Sacha into giving Kalak's templars spells, since he couldn't.  Weird but okay.  I guess they were just heads. 


It made Hamanu a bit more sympathetic, which was its point, I think.  He became the troll scorcher for vengeance and then got caught in Rajaat's trap.  He was still a very hard man, definitely a more 1800s attitude than "modern," and he did care about Urik.  It was not how we would care today, though. 


I do think it set up primordials in the guardians.  Further, how did other humans become immortal if not for some other power?  Or were they able to become that power?  Again, good ideas to think about. 


I came up with my own ideas and some I like a lot.  


One scenerio has the champions become powerful and then contact a demon named Rajaat.  After getting power from him, they use that power to cut Athas off from the Outer Planes, thereby denying Rajaat their souls.  They then have to spend the rest of the time keeping him away or they will be claimed. 


In another, Rajaat discovers magic and teaches it, more like a Jedi Master.  However, some of his students go to the "dark side" and he tries to help them.  He eventually dies and they take over.  I haven't figured out what the levy is for in this one. 


I have been playing Titan Quest, a computer RPG, a lot recently.  I bring it up because in it, you are a human and *everything* you fight is non human.  When that revelation hit me, I realized I was a sorcerer king!  Further, since it's earth history, it didn't bother me that I was basically commiting genocide against satyrs, minotaurs, maeneds and other creatures.  From there, I, at least, understood the Sorcerer King's attitude, in that they thought the world belonged to humans and were merely reclaiming it.  It's what they believe to be true that was the important part.  (The simple version of this is that they were nazi's, but it was easy to pick out the non humans and exterminate them.  Hmm.  Or they could be Daleks, which is saying the same thing.) 


Hmm.  What if the Messenger comet was Rajaat and somehow it was always aimed at the planet and the SKs have to deflect it every time it comes close? Or Rajaat caused it to constantly attack the planet as revenge for being betrayed?  What if Rajaat meant messenger in some obscure language?


What if the other areas outside the Tablelands were defiled but now, thousands of years later, have finally grown back?  Further, they are so prejuidiced against magic, that any wizards are killed violently and quickly?  They don't mind psionics but they don't want to see their area laid to waste as they hear in the stories. 


So, yes.  Definitely like the idea of alternate histories.  I am running a Dark Sun game now and want to run more after this, either in different city states to show a different perspective, or in a different history to keep the players interested. 


turlough

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5 months ago  ::  Oct 30, 2009 - 7:18AM #6
Phoenix_M
Posts: 440
Date Joined: 06/21/05

Nice bit of history there turlough.

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5 months ago  ::  Oct 31, 2009 - 4:51AM #7
Silverblade_The_Enchanter
Posts: 1,129
Date Joined: 02/28/04

As I've explaiend before, my ownalternate history is that in a time far, far in the past, mind flayers wnated ot put out Atha' sun. My Athas is millions of years old..perhaps..the history is guessed at, only the sorcror kings may actually know and they ain't telling!


they gave humanoids and others psionics, and siphoned off a tiny imperceptible fraction of this power over millenia to fuel their sun darkening. If you have "the Illithiad" book, or read up on illithid lore, you find they have a goal of wanting to put out the Suns of worlds, which burn and blind them.


they screwed up, the Sun went nova , the gods bareky managed to stop it, leaving the sun a  red giant, and gods were driven off/killed and astral connections severed (perhaps in fear of the nova occuring)


so-uts and other creatures are living war machines, scorched earth destroyers, designed ot obliterate enemy ciivlizations not just kill, and, alas, they destroyed much of the reosurces etc.


defilers came baout due to the explosion in psionics, someone found out how to link psionics ot magic, to defile.


etc, leaving Athas as it is now.

--| SILVERBLADES SUITCASE |-- Dark Sun & Spelljammer digital art & tutorials
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5 months ago  ::  Oct 31, 2009 - 6:15PM #8
Raddu76
Posts: 85
Date Joined: 03/14/08

That is a great alternate history Silverblade.  IIRC mindflayers weren't listed as being on Athas due to a lack of underdark.  Were they still around?  Where?

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5 months ago  ::  Nov 01, 2009 - 1:15AM #9
turlough
Posts: 91
Date Joined: 02/28/02

Oct 30, 2009 -- 7:18AM, Phoenix_M wrote:


Nice bit of history there turlough.




Thanks!


I am quite happy with a few of them and keep looking to expand them.  I have time as nothing has been "locked" in the campaign.  So, that's nice as well.


turlough

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5 months ago  ::  Nov 01, 2009 - 2:26AM #10
Phoenix_M
Posts: 440
Date Joined: 06/21/05

Oct 31, 2009 -- 6:15PM, Raddu76 wrote:


That is a great alternate history Silverblade.  IIRC mindflayers weren't listed as being on Athas due to a lack of underdark.  Were they still around?  Where?





On the other side of the of the Sea of Silt.


Link & Link.

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