|
2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 5:50AM
#341
|
Date Joined:
Feb 19, 2006
|
Short of reworking the entire build, then, what would people substitute for the master's blade weapon for an 11th level rogue of this build? I've been deliberately avoiding the frostcheese route as our fighter has already gone down that path, but is frost the clear answer to synergize with him? Is there another weapon that suits this build's strengths more directly?
Goblin Totem is easy enough.
You'd want to swap out the IAoP then.
|
|
|
|
4 weeks ago ::
Apr 27, 2013 - 3:42AM
#342
|
Date Joined:
Feb 16, 2011
|
As the DM of someone that has copied this rogue completely, how the hell do I deal with it without throwing my non-optimised party members under the bus?
It was bad enough with my Dragon Sorcerer having defender level AC at level 10 and dealing retarded amounts of damage in the meantime. That character is currently being chained up in a magic-proof cell and the player's rerolling until his paladin can save his old pc.
He's at level 12 and I have him, a Warlock, a Paladin (that's also highly optimized), and a wizard. With the Paladin's retarded high AC defenses, enemies didn't really want to target him or this little rogue. The elite they faced nearly dropped the Wizard in one turn and then nearly ate the warlock whole. While still smacking at the rogue and paladin when the creature actually would. Sorry, but after his pincers bouncing off the plate mail and getting dodged with ease by the halfling, he's going to look for easier targets - the quishy wizard and warlock. I have a knack for being a brutal DM (for varies reasons.. borken bones, diseases..), but (due to this being my first DM'd campaign and not wanting to limit my players from having their own fun with their characters) I don't know how to.. properly combat them? I don't want an encounter being too easy, but I also don't want an encounter to drop my wizard from 77 to 1 hit point in one round because he's not optimized like everyone else is. I keep encounters within experience budget but.. I dunno.
|
|
|
|
4 weeks ago ::
Apr 27, 2013 - 10:07PM
#343
|
|
|
you need to have a talk with the party- basically, they should be closer toghether in terms of op level, so either the wizard and warlock would need help optimizing, or the rogue and paladin should be weakened dramatically, or a little of both.
i would recommend heading over to the "what's a DM to do?" forum, for better advice- but overall, remember that it's a cooperative game where everyone's goal is to have fun, you're allowed to be honest with them and tell them what the issue is in an amiable way so your group can arrive at a resolution that is right for them.
|
|
|
|
4 weeks ago ::
Apr 28, 2013 - 3:35AM
#344
|
|
|
You should rather tell the rogue player that playing unhittable characters that don't have punishment for ignoring them baked in (i mean, seriously, picking this PP is a joke, how much more punishment do you want to stack for being attacked. The PP's punishment isn't even good without vulnerability stacking) is being an ineffective dick. This build is really overrated, i'd just ignore him, since his damage is good, but ignorable (even more, since you don't have Babau Gauntlets and an enabling leader in party), and crush the squishies instead, like you did. If the rogue player then doesn't realize that this build is not a good idea and one of the main reasons for his party losing encounters, he's pretty narrow-minded.
I don't want to blame the author of this build, since it's a very old build and i don't know what rule sources he had to build it back then and what of this build got errataed in the process and i appreciate everyone's work that's put in such extensive builds.
I rather want to blame your player that he really thinks this is (still) a good idea, now in 2013.
|
|
|
|
4 weeks ago ::
Apr 28, 2013 - 4:51AM
#345
|
Date Joined:
Sep 22, 2007
|
Swarms with a damage aura, or things like chillborn zombies, or controler type mobs with stuns that target the weak NADs, or better yet, a Dominate so that the rogue can stab the wizard instead of you doing it. TBH the ways to break an OPed character are usually staggering.
|
|
|
|
2 weeks ago ::
May 07, 2013 - 10:50PM
#346
|
Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2008
|
I play something similar to this character, and have done so for about 3 years now (we advance very slowly, and he is level 14 now). Essentials are not allowed in our campaign so that limits the options a bit. But to answer the frustrated GM above I can assure you there are plenty of ways to hamper a rogue with this build - Aranador sums them up quite well. I play in a reasonably well optimized party and the GM can tackle us all.
1. The PP's punishment isn't even good without vulnerability stacking)
...
2. This build is really overrated
....
3. I rather want to blame your player that he really thinks this is (still) a good idea, now in 2013.
And now to my own questions.
1. Yes, our party barbarian can put some vulnerability on the mobs that are reallynice with this feature.
But I can't seem to find any ways for myself to apply vulnerabilty - feats or some such. Did you have something specific in mind when you wrote the part on vulnerability? It would help out quite a bit.
2. Well, it certainly isn't all that overpowered. But it is a good build if you like to play an Artful Dodger rogue.
3. What would you consider a better build for an artful dodger rogue?
|
|
|
|
2 weeks ago ::
May 08, 2013 - 11:20AM
#347
|
|
|
I play something similar to this character, and have done so for about 3 years now (we advance very slowly, and he is level 14 now). Essentials are not allowed in our campaign so that limits the options a bit.
But to answer the frustrated GM above I can assure you there are plenty of ways to hamper a rogue with this build - Aranador sums them up quite well.
I play in a reasonably well optimized party and the GM can tackle us all.
1. The PP's punishment isn't even good without vulnerability stacking)
...
2. This build is really overrated
....
3. I rather want to blame your player that he really thinks this is (still) a good idea, now in 2013.
And now to my own questions.
1. Yes, our party barbarian can put some vulnerability on the mobs that are reallynice with this feature.
But I can't seem to find any ways for myself to apply vulnerabilty - feats or some such. Did you have something specific in mind when you wrote the part on vulnerability? It would help out quite a bit.
2. Well, it certainly isn't all that overpowered. But it is a good build if you like to play an Artful Dodger rogue.
3. What would you consider a better build for an artful dodger rogue?
1. This build lacks punishment for ignoring, so, with a decent DM your PP's f11 will simply never trigger and you shouldn't try to optimize around it. Vulnerability op is too vast of a topic to write it all down here.
3. I don't like non-Brutal Scoundrels at all and wouldn't play an artful dodger in the first place.  Your question should be answered by somebody who's more into the rogue class.
|
|
|
|
2 weeks ago ::
May 08, 2013 - 1:00PM
#348
|
Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2008
|
I see what you mean about lacking punishment for ignoring. But that very much depends on the GM.
My GM is nice enough to say that no opponent knows of this effect before they have seen it in combat. So I always get a few shots off.
And then he also says that low-to-no-Intelligence monsters don't get it anyway, and most likely will continue making OAs even after they burned their fingers (especially if they are berserker-like).
So all in all I get very good milage on it.
|
|
|
|
2 weeks ago ::
May 08, 2013 - 2:29PM
#349
|
|
|
I see what you mean about lacking punishment for ignoring. But that very much depends on the GM.
My GM is nice enough to say that no opponent knows of this effect before they have seen it in combat. So I always get a few shots off.
And then he also says that low-to-no-Intelligence monsters don't get it anyway, and most likely will continue making OAs even after they burned their fingers (especially if they are berserker-like).
So all in all I get very good milage on it.
with a decent DM your PP's f11 will simply never trigger
This build
a) deals way less damage than any proper built Brutal Scoundrel (both, on- and off-turn)
b) doesn't take his portion of damage and is therefore even worse for the group than a permahidden build, cause the latter can get some OAs, at least.
c) is even worse than i thought at first glance.
Edit: Its only advantage is that it wont ever provoke OAs. So if you manage to optimize around being attacked/missed AND manage to create some sort of punishment for letting you move around, that would be some weird kind of catch-22. Don't think that there's a way to achieve this, without making it even more horrible, tho.
|
|
|
