|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 4:32AM
#131
|
|
|
Wrong.
Very enlightening and an excellent addition to this debate. You strengthen your side of the debate every time you post.
Also, I am reposting this because you ignored it:
Also, even if "extra actions" and "normal actions" are different, dazed makes no distinction. Dazed does not say "you can take either a normal standard action, a normal move action, or a normal minor action..."
"Extra" actions are still standard, move, or minor actions, which still fall under dazes restriction
What is this now a case of, I point out that you completely ignored my responses, so you say the same thing? "Your trying to turn this into, I know you are but what am I?" Seems rather childish.
Sure they can be spent on standard, move or minor actions. They are still extra, and you still get them, if you spend the action point, because they are seperate from the limit of 3 actions clearly listed in the actions on your turn. You have yet to prove that being dazed limits extra actions in any way.You know when someone is right, they don't need to make strawmen arguments to try and trick people. That's all a strawman argument is. They don't ignore facts, because they don't want have to say they don't have an answer. And they certainly don't pull the old, I'm going to say what you say, in response. Because they don't have too. Those are all tactics used by people who really have no response that address the issue. It's basically, lets shift the actual discussion, so we never address the issue. And then jump back like 5 points where you felt you had the best footing. Look, if that's how you play, good. That's the game, it can be played anyway you want, and you can read the rules many ways. You clearly don't like being told you are wrong. But you've spent most of the time on this thread telling everyone else they are wrong. So if you don't like being told you are wrong, maybe you should stop doing the same to everyone else, simply because they see things differently, and play the game the way that is most fun. You're not wrong, I'm not wrong, everyone else on this thread isn't wrong. You play the game the way you want. It's always been that way.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 4:36AM
#132
|
Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2008
|
god, i'm the OP and even i'm tired of this thread. look guys let's just quit the debate and call a truce. we don't play at the same table so no need for us to come any form of general consensus concerning this issue. we play it our table how we interpret it and you play it at your table how you interpret it. personally i would like a clear statement from R&D but that's not gonna happen so let's just forget it.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 5:34AM
#133
|
- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
|
I've actually poked someone inside WotC about this (someone who's in charge of the FAQ), if he doesn't post his reply here, I'll be happy to pass his answer along.  (FWIW - I lean toward "yes - you can get an extra action with the AP, even while dazed").
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide  Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 5:42AM
#134
|
- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
- Dragon Slayer
- D&DI News Guide
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2005
|
Actually, I should have checked the Player's Handbook FAQ first - the answer is in there:
31. Can I spend an action point while I'm dazed? Yes. Spending an action point is a free action, and you can take free actions while you're dazed.
Wolf Star76 Community Advocate (SVCL) for D&D Organized Play, Avalon Hill, and the DCI/WPN LFR Community Manager DDi Guide Created by MyFitnessPal - Free Calorie Counter
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 5:57AM
#135
|
|
|
That would be under the dazed rules. I am quite aware that dazed says specifies that you can take 1 action. If you continue reading my post (what you quoted of my post as well) you will notice I was talking about a normal (not dazed) turn, not a dazed turn. Where, in the rules, does it say you can only take 3 actions on your normal (not dazed) turn?
That's kind of the point I was making. In the section describing what you can do in a normal round, it gives you a limit of 3 by describing what you can do. In the dazed section it gives you a limit of 1 by describing what you can do. No where does it say in the normal section you can only take 3 actions and nowhere in the dazed section does it say you can only take 1 action. Dazed is a limiting action right? In it's description is describes what it limits. Nowhere does it limit the use of an action point to take extra actions
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 6:10AM
#136
|
|
|
Actually, I should have checked the Player's Handbook FAQ first - the answer is in there:
31. Can I spend an action point while I'm dazed? Yes. Spending an action point is a free action, and you can take free actions while you're dazed.
Sadly, this doesn't resolve the debate. There's no question about whether you can spend the action point; the question is whether you can actually use the extra action. Some argue that you can because it's an extra action, others argue that you can't because you can only use one action while dazed no matter how many actions you have access to. As I said before, there's reasonable rules support for both sides, which is why the debate is just going in circles now that all the relevant rules have been cited.
t~
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 6:41AM
#137
|
Date Joined:
Jan 17, 2009
|
Amend it in your own game. Choose a side of the fence to fall on and be done with it  The literal interpretations of this thread and the sheer amount of time wasted in participating in it is staggering. If one of your players is going to argue about this to the point of anger, you need to find a new player to replace them.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 7:40AM
#138
|
Date Joined:
Jan 24, 2009
|
You have yet to prove that being dazed limits extra actions in any way.You know when someone is right, they don't need to make strawmen arguments to try and trick people. That's all a strawman argument is. They don't ignore facts, because they don't want have to say they don't have an answer.
Fact. The three main action types are Standard, Move, and Minor. Fact. Spending an action point gives you an extra Standard, Move, or Minor. Fact. Dazed lets you use a single action (one) of the three main action types. It does not allow for more main actions beyond that one. Fact. Nowhere does spending an action point say that you can use that action regardless of circumstances. Ergo, an extra action still falls under the categorization of the three main action types and thus is still restricted by dazed. --- That is my position based on the reading of the rules. I am finished here.
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 7:42AM
#139
|
|
|
Actually, I should have checked the Player's Handbook FAQ first - the answer is in there:
31. Can I spend an action point while I'm dazed? Yes. Spending an action point is a free action, and you can take free actions while you're dazed.
That's been brought up.
The argument is that you can spend the point, but you can't actually use the action. Which frankly, is not how 4E is meant to work, from everything the designers say about what they intend for the game. Do people really think the designers thought along these lines: "Oh sure you can get an extra action, but you can't use it, ha ha ha, we just tricked you into using your action point!"
|
|
|
|
4 years ago ::
Oct 16, 2009 - 7:44AM
#140
|
|
|
You have yet to prove that being dazed limits extra actions in any way.You know when someone is right, they don't need to make strawmen arguments to try and trick people. That's all a strawman argument is. They don't ignore facts, because they don't want have to say they don't have an answer.
Fact. The three main action types are Standard, Move, and Minor.
Fact. Spending an action point gives you an extra Standard, Move, or Minor.
Fact. Dazed lets you use a single action (one) of the three main action types. It does not allow for more main actions beyond that one.
Fact. Nowhere does spending an action point say that you can use that action regardless of circumstances.
Ergo, an extra action still falls under the categorization of the three main action types and thus is still restricted by dazed.
---
That is my position based on the reading of the rules. I am finished here.
I reserve the right to doubt you are finished here. How you play it out, works for your game. However, you insist everyone else is wrong, doesn't hold water. And if WoTC comes back and it turns out you are wrong, will you come back and make amends?
|
|
|
