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4 years ago ::
Oct 21, 2009 - 7:03PM
#191
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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Yeah, exactly there is a Dev post somewhere about Daze and AP. Possibly might be in the CS help chart thing. Basically the AP is something beyond the norm, it breaks for a brief instant through daze allowing you do something beyond normal.
I'd get along more with people if they didn't jump onto a hyberbole every single time you say something they don't understand.
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4 years ago ::
Oct 22, 2009 - 6:03AM
#192
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2008
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At the same time, a similar justification could work for the action point. Spending the action point could be viewed as heroically clearing your head for a moment to take that extra action.
I'm not disagreeing. Also, if the PCs can use action points for extra actions while dazed, so can monsters that have action points. Monsters that have action points are usually elites or solos, and anything that stops lockdowns of elites/solos is good. So there are lots of reasons for allowing extra actions while dazed. I think the difference between us is really just that I think the rules as written could benefit from an erratum and you think they're fine as they are.
Hoard: may earn you gp; Horde: may earn you xp.
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4 years ago ::
Oct 22, 2009 - 7:16AM
#193
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At the same time, a similar justification could work for the action point. Spending the action point could be viewed as heroically clearing your head for a moment to take that extra action.
I'm not disagreeing.
Also, if the PCs can use action points for extra actions while dazed, so can monsters that have action points. Monsters that have action points are usually elites or solos, and anything that stops lockdowns of elites/solos is good. So there are lots of reasons for allowing extra actions while dazed.
I think the difference between us is really just that I think the rules as written could benefit from an erratum and you think they're fine as they are.
I agree, monsters with AP's can use them while dazed.
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4 years ago ::
Oct 22, 2009 - 2:32PM
#194
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2008
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Normal round: you are only ALLOWED to take 3 actions (not counting free actions) Dazed round: you are only ALLOWED to take 1 action (not counting free actions) Action Point: You MAY take one action past your normally ALLOWED actions this turn. Seems pretty cut and dry to me, APs work when dazed. Any DM not allowing this needs to take a closer look at the point of the game....and the point is to have fun playing HEROIC characters, not losers.
"The great epochs of our life come when we gain the courage to rechristen our evil as what is best in us." - Friedrich Nietzsche
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4 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2009 - 9:21PM
#195
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Date Joined:
Feb 20, 2007
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Concerning RAI and the capacity to do other things and gain other benefits from action points besides just straight up taking another action, it's worth noting this. You get an extra benefit if you've got a Warlord in the party. Or if you're Paragon tier or higher and can run something off of your PP "action point feature". Or if you have a certain power or feat or magic item. Except that those are all specific things. And one of the design goals of this edition is that nothing is necessary. You no longer have to have a Cleric in the party, and you don't even have to have a Leader period. And other aspects of this edition are designed in like manner. So saying that the FAQ answer "You may take free actions while dazed" is intended to mean that you gain an extra action that you can't take and that you're supposed to do that because of a Warlord or PP or magic item benefit instead is in direct contradiction to that design goal. Never mind that the ambiguity allows for either interpretation anyway.
I've finally figured out how to put in a sig. Yes, I'm including this here for no other reason than to express how happy I am that I could finally do this. For goodness' sake, change these forums back (or just change, I don't care).
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4 years ago ::
Oct 23, 2009 - 10:29PM
#196
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2009
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I would like to repost a previous post I had made in this thread. Suo made a very good claim against it, but I still feel it is relevant.
My interpretation:
Since spending an action point is a free action, every benefit gained by said free action is also a free action. This is to say, the action point having a definition of free action, makes the spending of that extra gained (standard/move/minor) also a free action. This would allow it to be utilized while dazed, but not while stunned.
Now, before you all get angry at me, I have a reason in which I believe this. As a wizard, I frequently use Mordenkainen's Sword (PHB 163). It is a level 9 daily, standard action. It has a sustain minor component to it. Thus, when I sustain the sword, it grants itself a repeat of the standard action with all of the modifiers I previously added to it. Thus, my spending a minor action, grants a resulting standard action. Because the sword states exactly what this might be used for, it can only be used for that one reason. But, since it might be argued that the sword is its own entitity, I shall counter that the sword still uses all of my modifiers as the conjuring wizard. Thus, it is not its own entity, but still tied in to my actions and my modifiers. In fact, I can spend a move action to grant the sword movement. Hence, I posit the argument, that the resulting action takes the form of the action that was utilized to spend it, whether that be a minor action granting what would otherwise be a standard action, but done in the place of a minor action, or in the case of an action point, a free action granting a standard, et al. action, taking the form of a free action.
I apologize if I am unclear.
-TheNative
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2 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2011 - 7:05AM
#197
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Date Joined:
Mar 24, 2009
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Hi, this ''dazed vs AP'' came up on our session yesterday, have we got an official answer from someone yet?
Thanks!
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2 years ago ::
Jul 11, 2011 - 12:24PM
#198
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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Hi, this ''dazed vs AP'' came up on our session yesterday, have we got an official answer from someone yet?
Yes. The official PHB FAQ was updated with the underlined portion:
"29. Can I spend an action point while I'm dazed? Yes, you can spend an action point to take another action while dazed. Using an action point is a free action, and you can take free actions while you're dazed."
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