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Switch to Forum Live View Dragon 379 - Cleric Essentials
4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 1:15PM #41
Corwynn
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Oct 20, 2008
Posts: 1,660

Polytheism is the default standard.  Campaign settings can make exceptions.  Your campaign setting can as well.


Also in other news, no one cares

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 1:21PM #42
Haldrik
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2004
Posts: 9,403

"No one cares"? Because polytheism is boring?

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 1:36PM #43
Haldrik
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2004
Posts: 9,403

Here is what every D&D 4e class should look like.


Compare the Bard. The Bard class grants the player a wide array of magical backgrounds to explain the source of the Bards power.


You might be ...

  • a naturally talented wanderer who casts impressive spells almost instinctively,
  • a student of a bardic college who learned ordered systems of magic and epic poetry,
  • a warrior skald who mixes the skill at arms with thundering music,
  • a dashing performer known for putting on a good show even for your enemies,
  • or a perfectionist who seeks the consummate formula that blends art and magic into a higher force.

The Bard gives the player a lot of room to personalize a character concept. The magic can originate from various sources. Obviously, this list isnt even exhaustive, and the Bard player enjoys much freedom to express ems creativity.


By contrast, the Cleric class gives the player no choice except to boot-lick polytheistic gods. Its disgusting. There are no other spiritual backgrounds to explain the source of the Clerics healing power besides polytheism.


The Cleric class needs to supply a VARIETY of spiritual backgrounds.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 1:41PM #44
Seeker95
  • Reasonably Disagreeable
Date Joined: Oct 24, 2001
Posts: 9,933

Not that it matters to anyone, but I find Haldrik to be arguing for the sake of arguing rather than seeking in any capacity a solution to a perceived problem. Tharag has provided an effective and sufficient approach to playing clerics in a deity-less world, even moreso a non-polytheistic one.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)

A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 2:02PM #45
Haldrik
Date Joined: Jan 2, 2004
Posts: 9,403

Seeker: arguing for the sake of arguing rather than seeking in any capacity a solution to a perceived problem.


What are you talking about?


Im actively seeking a solution to the problem.


I want a solution. I want to have more choices than polytheism. I will be very happy when official alternatives exist.


Iv supplied a detailed list of very different kinds of spirituality: including transcendence, animism, veneration of ancestors, fertility religion, philosophical idealism, and so on. These examples the Cleric class can use when giving a list of alternative spiritual backgrounds.


Iv supplied the Bard class as an example of how to solve the problem. It gives a variety of ways to explain the Bard powers. The Cleric class should do this too. The Cleric class should give a variety of ways to explain the Cleric powers.


That would solve the problem.


Its ok if there are specific D&D gods, like Corellon, Bahamut, etc. There can still be specific non-polytheistic spiritualities that coexist simultaneously. They just access the Divine power source in different ways, some may do this 'instinctively', some may do this as part of an 'ordered philosophical system', or so on. No gods are necessary. I want Clerics to have spiritual diversity.


 


Tharag has provided an effective and sufficient approach to playing clerics in a deity-less world, even moreso a non-polytheistic one.


The problem with Tharags suggestion is it isnt official. According to the 'Core' setting, its illegal.


 


I want the OFFICIAL CORE Cleric class to CLEARLY state: your Cleric character doesnt have to be a polytheist. I want other options besides polytheism. As a player, I want a Cleric who is a mystic from a Psionic culture that venerates the 'divine light' of infinite consciousness, whence Radiant energy and Healing effects. As a DM, it would be cool to design Cleric NPCs with interesting spiritualities. I want diversity.


 


If you are sick of hearing about polytheism. Believe me, Im sick of hearing about polytheism too!

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 2:20PM #46
October_Darkness
Date Joined: Dec 28, 2003
Posts: 607

I found the article interesting. I like how they're finally giving Clerics the attention they need after Divine Power was released.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 5:13PM #47
MediumD
Date Joined: May 30, 2008
Posts: 114

I can't countenance worship of a being as powerful and yet fallible as a D&D god, demon lord, or primordial; therefore my cleric doesn't worship a deity. But the rules work fine if I hand wave a deity like Bahamut or Pelor into an impersonal cosmic force, such as Warcraft's "Light." I don't see any game mechanic that prevents this.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 6:37PM #48
Corman
Date Joined: Aug 23, 2007
Posts: 241

Sep 18, 2009 -- 3:30AM, The1Darklord wrote:


Battle Cleric Armaments – Proficiency with Light Shields and with one military weapon of your choice. A cheap way to improve both your weapon and AC/Ref, wouldn’t you rather have a superior weapon though?


Assured Healing – when you miss with an attack with the healing keyword that has no effect on a miss (read astral seal or healing strike) you or one ally within 5 squares regains hit points equal to Charisma mod. WOW this is awesome for Shielding Clerics. I really like this and will definitely get it for my pacifist cleric. On an aside can anyone see anything that would increase the healing on this? All the feats/items I’ve looked at only improve powers not feats.




 


I do not (yet) have access to a copy of Dragon #379. Can you tell me if there are prerequisites to these feats (Str, Wis, etc)?

Paragons of the Forum: To me, these are people who set the standard for information, insight, and intellect in the 4e forums. Thank you!
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 7:26PM #49
Seeker95
  • Reasonably Disagreeable
Date Joined: Oct 24, 2001
Posts: 9,933

Sep 22, 2009 -- 2:02PM, Haldrik wrote:

Im actively seeking a solution to the problem.

I want a solution. I want to have more choices than polytheism. I will be very happy when official alternatives exist.


I don't buy it. You don't want a solution. You want a spoon-fed alteration of the core fluff.

Nothing but you stops you from playing a cleric and saying he worships the primal spirits.
Nothing but you stops you from saying there are no gods in your world.
Nothing but you stops you from making the changes that you want.

It's fluff. Change the fluff as much as you like.

Not that I expect this easy and immediate solution to appease you. It has already been offered and rejected.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)

A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 22, 2009 - 8:06PM #50
Shroomy
Date Joined: Apr 23, 2005
Posts: 589

Sep 22, 2009 -- 6:37PM, Corman wrote:


I do not (yet) have access to a copy of Dragon #379. Can you tell me if there are prerequisites to these feats (Str, Wis, etc)?





Battle Armanents requires a 15 Str.

Tim Eagon

My DDI Articles

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