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Switch to Forum Live View Dragon 379 - Cleric Essentials
4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 1:22AM #1
Kerrus
  • Dragon Slayer
Date Joined: Jan 29, 2008
Posts: 1,428

So the article is up, and right off the bat it looks very interesting.


 


Though naturally there are some problems- the power 'Sacred Armistice' has an erroneous sustain line that it appears to have stolen from the power 'Angelic Witnesses', which is missing it.

Oh Content, where art thou?
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 3:30AM #2
The1Darklord
  • Can Read the Matrix
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2008
Posts: 517

Hmm yes I’d agree it mostly just seems interesting so far, the powers don’t seem great but I like some of the feats. I do like the Assured Healing feat, I suspect I’d pick that up for my Pacifist Cleric. The Pacifist’s Reward isn’t bad either.


Here’s my thoughts on the new feats.


Heroic Feats


Battle Cleric Armaments – Proficiency with Light Shields and with one military weapon of your choice. A cheap way to improve both your weapon and AC/Ref, wouldn’t you rather have a superior weapon though?


Domain Synergy – + 2 to attack rolls with the associated at will, after you’ve used the domains CD. This is actually really good but you do need both the domain feat and the domain’s divinity feat something that not all characters would want. (I’ll admit one of my clerics has both of the sun feats) Note this is a feat bonus.


Greater Divine Fortune – Makes Divine Fortune +3 which is reasonable, I think there’s better Channel Divinities out there though.


Harbinger of Rebirth - +2 to heal and allies with 5 get +5 to death saves, this is ok if you have a cleric who doesn’t focus on healing as much, but your allies shouldn’t really be dying on the floor in the first place if you’re doing your job healing them right.


Pacifist’s Reward – 2 temps when you hit an enemy but don’t damage them + 1 per tier. Nice but it doesn’t seem like enough temps to be massively worthwhile. That being said it combos quite well with powers like Life Transference and Stream of Life, reducing the damage you take nicely.


Word of Retaliation – You healing word heals extra hit points equal to the number of enemies adjacent to the target. I like this, I doubt a pacifist cleric would need it, but for others it can add a decent extra bit of healing.


 


Paragon Feats


Assured Healing – when you miss with an attack with the healing keyword that has no effect on a miss (read astral seal or healing strike) you or one ally within 5 squares regains hit points equal to Charisma mod. WOW this is awesome for Shielding Clerics. I really like this and will definitely get it for my pacifist cleric. On an aside can anyone see anything that would increase the healing on this? All the feats/items I’ve looked at only improve powers not feats.


Gambler’s Word – If you crit you gain an extra use of Healing Word. Nice, although the party only has so many healing surges. The wording is a little ambigious is it meant to give you an extra use of Healing Word which every single crit? With the right PP a cleric can be criting on a 18 or 19+, this would seem to be excessive. As noted above though the party only has so many healing surges, which would stop this from getting to silly.



Daniel. 



 


 


 

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 6:35AM #3
Blue_dragon_cult
Date Joined: Jul 5, 2004
Posts: 156

And yet again they miss the opportunity to please us elven bowclerics =(


When will we get a feat/magic item bow that counts as a holy symbol?


Our bard and warlock cousins do and several other races already have weapon implements.


That dex aint even mentioned in this article is an afront to our elven race!


I bet its written by a mere human no less!


 


(and yes I know about the PP, but not all of us follow the seldarine! :p)


Other then that I found the article quite ok if hardly ground breaking.


Cheers

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 7:48AM #4
Nadare
Date Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Posts: 9

I had high hopes for this article but I found it somewhat underwhelming.


Domain Synergy is very nice if you possess both the feats for the domain.  Unfortunately, not all the domains have both domain and divinity feats worth taking.


Assured Healing is very potent if you have Recovery Strike, since it is an at-will with the Healing keyword.  Assured Healing means you can heal with Recovery Strike regardless of whether you hit or miss.


Greater Divine Fortune is a joke.  Divine Fortune should have given +3 as it was, and spending a feat to get it there is just wrong.


Some of the other pacifist build options are nice, but don't personally interest me.


I play a balanced cleric, and it looks like they just got kicked in the teeth again ("...taking both Strength and Wisdom powers probably isn't worth it").  Come on, Wizards.  With a +3 proficiency bonus weapon and a decent race choice, you can do just fine with both types.  It's like the designers don't even consider it a valid option.  In a smaller party where characters have to fill multiple roles, the balanced cleric is very nice.


It's interesting that all of the cleric builds tank Dex.  Why is having good Int so much better than Dex other than skills and rituals?  Some builds can benefit a lot more from Dex -- Astral Fire needs Dex 13 (and is pretty much designed for clerics), and if you go the Polearm Gamble route, there are a few nice feats related to OAs that need Dex.  Dex also adds to initiative, where Int does not. 


I see Lance of Faith was left off of the domain attacks list in the article. 


I was really hoping for some more cool powers like Gaze of Defiance and what we saw in Divine Power.  I can't really see myself taking many of the powers in this article.  It really annoys me that Gaze of Defiance and Sacred Flame totally got shafted in domain support, and this article even recommends that you take it because it's so cool.  I know that Gaze of Defiance and Sacred Flame didn't really need a lot of extra help, but it's not like Righteous Brand did either (which is arguably even more powerful). 


I like the domain support feats to boost at will powers, I think it would be great to have more domain-focused feats and abilities instead of god-specific ones (especially since then you could interchange pantheons without affecting anything).   This would be great for a future article.  The only problem with the domain feats is that you get rewarded only for certain combinations of power and domain choices.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 8:58AM #5
Crodocile
Date Joined: Nov 15, 2004
Posts: 818

I was really hoping there'd be a paragon path for strength clerics who don't use shields, aren't dwarves, and don't worship the dwarf god.  Because there isn't one yet.  I guess they don't think strength clerics should have paragon paths for some reason.  Oh well, I guess they really want us to use Pit Fighter.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 10:46AM #6
Seeker95
  • Reasonably Disagreeable
Date Joined: Oct 24, 2001
Posts: 9,933

Sep 18, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Nadare wrote:

Domain Synergy is very nice if you possess both the feats for the domain.  Unfortunately, not all the domains have both domain and divinity feats worth taking.


SOunds to me like not every cleric would have need of this feat. That makes it a good feat. If it was good for every cleric, then it would practically be a must-have feat. I don't like must-have feats.

Sep 18, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Nadare wrote:

Assured Healing is very potent if you have Recovery Strike, since it is an at-will with the Healing keyword.  Assured Healing means you can heal with Recovery Strike regardless of whether you hit or miss.


You say that as if it is a bad thing. If you have Recovery Strike, this is a good feat for when you use that power.

Sep 18, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Nadare wrote:

Greater Divine Fortune is a joke.  Divine Fortune should have given +3 as it was, and spending a feat to get it there is just wrong.


Divine Fortune doesn't have the +3. For those who want a +3, this feat is available. For those who feel it is not worth the feat, they need not take it.

I liked this article *because* nothing stood out as "must-have". It offers a little bit of something for everyone, but not any one thing for everyone. (Even elven bow clerics can find something useful in this article. Just nothing for their elven bow.)

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)

A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 12:56PM #7
MediumD
Date Joined: May 30, 2008
Posts: 114

Not much there for my cleric.


I'm still hoping for a cloth-caster build at some point.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 3:33PM #8
Tharag_Bocc
Date Joined: Jun 29, 2003
Posts: 2,851

Sep 18, 2009 -- 12:56PM, MediumD wrote:

I'm still hoping for a cloth-caster build at some point.


As am I.  Unfortunately we'll likely have to wait untill divine power to see such a build, unless PH3 gives us a new class that funtions as a cloth garbed divine caster.


In the mean time, now that Divine Power has provided the avenger with a useful selection of implement powers and a sub-leader build, I've found that hybrid cleric|avenger or invoker|avenger can function as reasonably well in fulfilling that concept.

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 6:34PM #9
Nadare
Date Joined: Sep 15, 2009
Posts: 9

Sep 18, 2009 -- 10:46AM, Seeker95 wrote:


Sep 18, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Nadare wrote:

Domain Synergy is very nice if you possess both the feats for the domain.  Unfortunately, not all the domains have both domain and divinity feats worth taking.


SOunds to me like not every cleric would have need of this feat. That makes it a good feat. If it was good for every cleric, then it would practically be a must-have feat. I don't like must-have feats.

Sep 18, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Nadare wrote:

Assured Healing is very potent if you have Recovery Strike, since it is an at-will with the Healing keyword.  Assured Healing means you can heal with Recovery Strike regardless of whether you hit or miss.


You say that as if it is a bad thing. If you have Recovery Strike, this is a good feat for when you use that power.

Sep 18, 2009 -- 7:48AM, Nadare wrote:

Greater Divine Fortune is a joke.  Divine Fortune should have given +3 as it was, and spending a feat to get it there is just wrong.


Divine Fortune doesn't have the +3. For those who want a +3, this feat is available. For those who feel it is not worth the feat, they need not take it.


I liked this article *because* nothing stood out as "must-have". It offers a little bit of something for everyone, but not any one thing for everyone. (Even elven bow clerics can find something useful in this article. Just nothing for their elven bow.)




With Domain Synergy I was thinking at first it might be case of the rich getting richer and that characters with good domain and divinity powers (the Sun domain being one) get a really nice benefit without giving up much.  But thinking some more, it might function as compensation for those who have a domain whose divinity power is not as great.  No doubt, it's a very nice feat, and not for everyone as you said.


Assured Healing is definitely a good thing -- it seems quite powerful and I was a bit shocked at the power level.  I am totally taking this feat.  Even on a miss, you can revive a dying ally.


I'm just saying that Divine Fortune should have been +3 all along.  A +1 to one roll per encounter (in exclusion to using another channel divinity feat) is way too weak.  They should have just errata'd it instead of trying to apply a feat patch. 


I agree there there is probably something for everyone and I like game balance as much as the next guy.  With Divine Power out, there's a lot of healing feats and powers now.  I was just hoping to see something a little different. 

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4 years ago  ::  Sep 18, 2009 - 8:55PM #10
chanter_hound
Date Joined: Aug 11, 2006
Posts: 2,008

Bah! IMO clerics didn't need an essetials artical yet.

I'd get along more with people if they didn't jump onto a hyberbole every single time you say something they don't understand.
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