On paragon it seems very painful, when you get to repeat for example thunderwave as a stormsoul genasi. But i'm not sure wether White Lotus Riposte alone (4 damage on LV 1 with 18 INT) would "persuade" the DM not to attack me. Is there any way, besides higher INT, to increase the damage from White Lotus Riposte?
On paragon it seems very painful, when you get to repeat for example thunderwave as a stormsoul genasi. But i'm not sure wether White Lotus Riposte alone (4 damage on LV 1 with 18 INT) would "persuade" the DM not to attack me. Is there any way, besid
The reccomended array for a Gensai blaster doesn't allow you to get DIS till Epic, and doesn't allow you to get Wizard Implement Expertise at all... that can't be right, can it? If you start with Str 14, Dex/Wis 13, Int 16, Con 10, Cha 8, you can get DIS whenver you have that second magic implement worth using, Wizard Implement Expertise at 21, you can get pretty much every feat an Arcane Striker would want and you only lose 1 pt of damage from Elemental Empowerment if you just bump Str/Int at every chance. And 1 to Fortitude defense I suppose....
The reccomended array for a Gensai blaster doesn't allow you to get DIS till Epic, and doesn't allow you to get Wizard Implement Expertise at all... that can't be right, can it? If you start with Str 14, Dex/Wis 13, Int 16, Con 10, Cha 8, you can get
The reccomended array for a Gensai blaster doesn't allow you to get DIS till Epic, and doesn't allow you to get Wizard Implement Expertise at all... that can't be right, can it? If you start with Str 14, Dex/Wis 13, Int 16, Con 10, Cha 8, you can get DIS whenver you have that second magic implement worth using, Wizard Implement Expertise at 21, you can get pretty much every feat an Arcane Striker would want and you only lose 1 pt of damage from Elemental Empowerment if you just bump Str/Int at every chance. And 1 to Fortitude defense I suppose....
Your post sounds important, but i miss the point, because i don't know what "DIS" means. Could someone enlighten me?
Your post sounds important, but i miss the point, because i don't know what "DIS" means. Could someone enlighten me?
The reccomended array for a Gensai blaster doesn't allow you to get DIS till Epic, and doesn't allow you to get Wizard Implement Expertise at all... that can't be right, can it? If you start with Str 14, Dex/Wis 13, Int 16, Con 10, Cha 8, you can get DIS whenver you have that second magic implement worth using, Wizard Implement Expertise at 21, you can get pretty much every feat an Arcane Striker would want and you only lose 1 pt of damage from Elemental Empowerment if you just bump Str/Int at every chance. And 1 to Fortitude defense I suppose....
Your post sounds important, but i miss the point, because i don't know what "DIS" means. Could someone enlighten me?
Dual Implement Spellcaster, Dex 13 pre-req.
Your post sounds important, but i miss the point, because i don't know what "DIS" means. Could someone enlighten me?Dual Implement Spellcaster, Dex 13 pre-req.
The reccomended array for a Gensai blaster doesn't allow you to get DIS till Epic, and doesn't allow you to get Wizard Implement Expertise at all... that can't be right, can it? If you start with Str 14, Dex/Wis 13, Int 16, Con 10, Cha 8, you can get DIS whenver you have that second magic implement worth using, Wizard Implement Expertise at 21, you can get pretty much every feat an Arcane Striker would want and you only lose 1 pt of damage from Elemental Empowerment if you just bump Str/Int at every chance. And 1 to Fortitude defense I suppose....
That's a good point. Some people might not want to go so far out of their way to qualify for the expanded crit feat. The array I have listed is for more controller-based blasters who want enlarge spell in heroic tier.
That's a good point. Some people might not want to go so far out of their way to qualify for the expanded crit feat. The array I have listed is for more controller-based blasters who want enlarge spell in heroic tier.
That's a good point. Some people might not want to go so far out of their way to qualify for the expanded crit feat. The array I have listed is for more controller-based blasters who want enlarge spell in heroic tier.
The array I suggested allow you to get Enlarge Spell in heroic....
The array I suggested allow you to get Enlarge Spell in heroic....
That's a good point. Some people might not want to go so far out of their way to qualify for the expanded crit feat. The array I have listed is for more controller-based blasters who want enlarge spell in heroic tier.
The array I suggested allow you to get Enlarge Spell in heroic....
I realize, but for 20 levels of the game (which is the entirety of it for a lot of people), you're operating at -1 damage with no advantage at all.
When i said that the array I suggested lets you get enlarge in heroic, that's in contrast to a 16/16/12/12 array that lets you take both DIS and enlarge spell, but both at paragon.
Also, check out that I added your suggested array in the archetypes section.
The array I suggested allow you to get Enlarge Spell in heroic....I realize, but for 20 levels of the game (which is the entirety of it for a lot of people), you're operating at -1 damage with no advantage at all.When i said that the array I suggeste
1.) Lightning/Flaming/Frost Weapon - Certainly the best way to convert damage. It only requires one feat (Arcane Implement Proficiency in heavy blades, light blades, or daggers) and an item slot. Leaves your off-hand open for Staff of Ruin and gives you complete freedom in your choice of paragon path. Unfortunately, it isn't an option for Thunder Blasters.
Apologies if this is a dumb newb question or if I've posted in the wrong place...
I'm wondering why you can't just use Transfer Enchantment to transfer the Lightning/Flaming/Frost Weapon into a staff and save yourself a feat. I'm not an optimizer, so I figure you guys have already considered this option and found some "rules clarification" explaining why it does not work.
Apologies if this is a dumb newb question or if I've posted in the wrong place...I'm wondering why you can't just use Transfer Enchantment to transfer the Lightning/Flaming/Frost Weapon into a staff and save yourself a feat. I'm not an optimizer, s
1.) Lightning/Flaming/Frost Weapon - Certainly the best way to convert damage. It only requires one feat (Arcane Implement Proficiency in heavy blades, light blades, or daggers) and an item slot. Leaves your off-hand open for Staff of Ruin and gives you complete freedom in your choice of paragon path. Unfortunately, it isn't an option for Thunder Blasters.
Apologies if this is a dumb newb question or if I've posted in the wrong place...
I'm wondering why you can't just use Transfer Enchantment to transfer the Lightning/Flaming/Frost Weapon into a staff and save yourself a feat. I'm not an optimizer, so I figure you guys have already considered this option and found some "rules clarification" explaining why it does not work.
It's an artifact of before some FAQ or errata (can't remember) that said whether or not you could enchant staffs as weapons. They clarified it to work exactly as you said - thanks for bringing it up. I'll fix it.
Apologies if this is a dumb newb question or if I've posted in the wrong place...I'm wondering why you can't just use Transfer Enchantment to transfer the Lightning/Flaming/Frost Weapon into a staff and save yourself a feat. I'm not an optimizer, s
As I have said before, great thread thanks for making it.
As I am moving this weekend we are finishing the level 30 game I am in tonight and I wanted to post my level 30 wizard here as a reference point for others. It uses a lot of the things listed in this thread but it also lists a lot of things not listed here so it might be an interesting read.
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Wizard encounter 27: Steal Time (replaces Arcane Chastisement)
Wizard daily 29: Legion's Hold (replaces Prismatic Beams)
ITEMS
Runic Efreetweave Armor +5, Defensive Quarterstaff +5, Pierced Heart Tattoo (epic tier), Ring of Giants (paragon tier), Assault Boots (paragon tier), Siberys Shard of the Mage (epic tier), Executioner's Bracers (epic tier), Timeless Locket +5, Many-Fingered Gloves (paragon tier), Cunning Quarterstaff +6 of Accuracy, Second Wind Bonus, Save Debuffs, Moonstone Sphere (epic tier), Rejuvenate Mind, DMG and CRIT DMG, Orb of Temporal Dissonance +3, Quickened Scorching Burst, Stone of Flame (paragon tier), Ebony Fly (heroic tier), Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon tier) (2), Shepherd's Battle Standard (paragon tier), Shepherd's Arms Javelin +3, Zaarani's Solitaire (heroic tier), Audaviator, Opal Ring of Remembrance (epic tier), Stalwart Belt (epic tier), Keoghtom's Ointment (paragon tier), Ring of Free Time (epic tier), Phrenic Crown (epic tier)
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
This build really only works at epic as it is based around the dwarf godmind combo. This character has 6 big AOE stuns per day. He always hits because he gets to roll twice and he often crits with 2 raise the stakes per day and 19-20 crit range (again rolling twice).
I was surprised how great strategist's epiphany was, my level 2 skill power. I took it after I got my Opal Ring of Remembrance (which gives +4 to int based skills). Since I can use it twice per day I took skill focus history at level 30. Which gives the whole party +3 init sorta kinda.
I give -9 or -11 to saving throws vs my 6 AOE stuns per day. I also have steal time which is basically a free action single target stun encounter power.
Despite having tons of accuracy and amazing stuns I still do tons of damage. I crit 2 guys for 260 each last night (prismatic spray + raise the stakes!). My scorching burst does around 62 damage and crits for around 110.
I think this is the most powerful wizard at epic level because he has great dps and great control. Unless your DM is doing something to mitigate stuns. I am considering getting flowform armor before tonight (I can augment it now). My current armor gives +5 damage though so I might not.
As I have said before, great thread thanks for making it. As I am moving this weekend we are finishing the level 30 game I am in tonight and I wanted to post my level 30 wizard here as a reference point for others. It uses a lot of the things listed
The problem is that it was changed to a Daily from an Encounter power. Sure it might work (depending on how your DM interprets the keyword adding Errata), but it can only work once per day.
The problem is that it was changed to a Daily from an Encounter power. Sure it might work (depending on how your DM interprets the keyword adding Errata), but it can only work once per day.
The problem is that it was changed to a Daily from an Encounter power. Sure it might work (depending on how your DM interprets the keyword adding Errata), but it can only work once per day.
Ahhh. In the Compendium it is still an encounter power.
And the new errata makes it pretty explicit that it'd add the keyword, just onece/day isn't enough for a blaster.
Ahhh. In the Compendium it is still an encounter power. And the new errata makes it pretty explicit that it'd add the keyword, just onece/day isn't enough for a blaster.
As I am moving this weekend we are finishing the level 30 game I am in tonight and I wanted to post my level 30 wizard here as a reference point for others. It uses a lot of the things listed in this thread but it also lists a lot of things not listed here so it might be an interesting read.
Really neat build. Dwarves have a lot of fun toys
I was a little surprised by the 24 Int. Could you list your +To Hit, and your damage modifier?
Really neat build. Dwarves have a lot of fun toys :)I was a little surprised by the 24 Int. Could you list your +To Hit, and your damage modifier?
My scorching burst does around 62 damage and crits for around 110.
Is there any way you can break it down for us? Im sure I could probably pick up a new trick or two for coming up with ways to stack damage. I don't see how you cough up 59 damage in modifiers.
Is there any way you can break it down for us? Im sure I could probably pick up a new trick or two for coming up with ways to stack damage. I don't see how you cough up 59 damage in modifiers.
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== level 10 Tiefling, Wizard Arcane Implement Mastery: Tome of Readiness Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (light blade group)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 12, Dex 13, Int 22, Wis 13, Cha 12.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 8, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 10.
POWERS Tome of Readiness: Orbmaster's Incendiary Detonation Wizard at-will 1: Scorching Burst Wizard at-will 1: Chilling Cloud Wizard encounter 1: Burning Hands Wizard daily 1: Flaming Sphere Wizard daily 1 Spellbook: Grease Wizard utility 2: Shield Wizard utility 2 Spellbook: Arcane Mutterings Wizard encounter 3: Fire Shroud Wizard daily 5: Fireball Wizard daily 5 Spellbook: Summon Magma Beast Wizard utility 6: Fire Shield Wizard utility 6 Spellbook: Wall of Fog Wizard encounter 7: Fire Burst Wizard daily 9: Wall of Fire Wizard daily 9 Spellbook: Summon Hell Hound Wizard utility 10: Illusory Wall Wizard utility 10 Spellbook: Feywild Spell Surge
For a heroic tier tiefling blaster, is this the best that can be done?Spoiler:
Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======level 10Tiefling, WizardArcane Implement Mastery: Tome of ReadinessArcane Implement Profi
I would definitely change the power selection and take much better spells. Fireball should not be taken, ever. Just take the incendiary dagger and make it Flaming. Restricting yourself to just fire spells is costing you a ton more damage and most of your control than if you just took the best elemental power each level.
Fun_Elemental,I would definitely change the power selection and take much better spells. Fireball should not be taken, ever. Just take the incendiary dagger and make it Flaming. Restricting yourself to just fire spells is costing you a ton more
I think Admixture is a perfectly legitimate alternative to the Janissary for gaining thunder powers, especially at early paragon. I wouldn't put it in the crap-list.
Consider that Janissary requires a worthless feat for entry, and then the path itself has so-so features for the most part. The main benefit is free admixture to all your powers and 1d4 bonus damage. An extra skill is ok, but nothing exciting. The AP resistance defeating sounds nice, but pretty much all your powers will be dual-keyword anyways so resistance/immunity doesn't do much in the first place. The level 11 power is crap. The 12 and 20 powers are nice though. I will also admit that a thunder-poison burst 3 stinking cloud is a sick beating!
Nothing says that the genesi has to use thunder powers exclusively. Elemental Echo still adds +1ab/+2 per tier damage to ALL powers.Elemental Empowerment adds STR-mod to all elemental powers. The only 2 benefits of thunder is the Resounding Thunder benefit, plus Promise of Storm boosts. Both are strong, but with a handful of lighting/thunder powers, you can still get full benefit from PoS. Oh yeah, you can take Echoes of Thunder for an extra weapon-focus damage boost. They can still have a solid choice of powers that are elemental-based and get their high damage output, combined with good control.
For a genesi that doesn't start close to 16 or might not ever get there, a different PP with an admixture may be the better way to go.
Consider a level 12 character. They could admixture Winged Horde which could be a burst 3 party-friendly with resounding thunder. Thunderwave would cover close encounters. Then they could take a PP with better early paragon powers and abilities. They might even focus on this as they level by taking the Resplendent Gloves, Psychic Lock, and eventually white lotus, quickened spellcasting, coordinated explosion, etc. [edit: you said white lotus doesn't work with Horde. how come?]
I'd make a cavaet that admixture is worthwhile for janissary wizards (retraining it at 16) for a favored at-will, or early paragon wizards that want to go with a different PP.
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Remember that echoes of thunder sucks now and is just a weapon-focus level benefit that only works with thunder powers. Due to nerf, the bonus doesn't grow anymore. Therefore, in builds that use Echoes, Id replace with Weapon Focus instead (or get rid of).
Regarding the Genesi blaster wizard,I think Admixture is a perfectly legitimate alternative to the Janissary for gaining thunder powers, especially at early paragon. I wouldn't put it in the crap-list.Consider that Janissary requires a worthless fe
I think Admixture is a perfectly legitimate alternative to the Janissary for gaining thunder powers, especially at early paragon. I wouldn't put it in the crap-list.
Consider that Janissary requires a worthless feat for entry, and then the path itself has so-so features for the most part. The main benefit is free admixture to all your powers and 1d4 bonus damage. An extra skill is ok, but nothing exciting. The AP resistance defeating sounds nice, but pretty much all your powers will be dual-keyword anyways so resistance/immunity doesn't do much in the first place. The level 11 power is crap. The 12 and 20 powers are nice though. I will also admit that a thunder-poison burst 3 stinking cloud is a sick beating!
Nothing says that the genesi has to use thunder powers exclusively. Elemental Echo still adds +1ab/+2 per tier damage to ALL powers.Elemental Empowerment adds STR-mod to all elemental powers. The only 2 benefits of thunder is the Resounding Thunder benefit, plus Promise of Storm boosts. Both are strong, but with a handful of lighting/thunder powers, you can still get full benefit from PoS. Oh yeah, you can take Echoes of Thunder for an extra weapon-focus damage boost. They can still have a solid choice of powers that are elemental-based and get their high damage output, combined with good control.
For a genesi that doesn't start close to 16 or might not ever get there, a different PP with an admixture may be the better way to go.
Consider a level 12 character. They could admixture Winged Horde which could be a burst 3 party-friendly with resounding thunder. Thunderwave would cover close encounters. Then they could take a PP with better early paragon powers and abilities. They might even focus on this as they level by taking the Resplendent Gloves, Psychic Lock, and eventually white lotus, quickened spellcasting, coordinated explosion, etc. [edit: you said white lotus doesn't work with Horde. how come?]
I'd make a cavaet that admixture is worthwhile for janissary wizards (retraining it at 16) for a favored at-will, or early paragon wizards that want to go with a different PP.
=========
Remember that echoes of thunder sucks now and is just a weapon-focus level benefit that only works with thunder powers. Due to nerf, the bonus doesn't grow anymore. Therefore, in builds that use Echoes, Id replace with Weapon Focus instead (or get rid of).
The problem with Arcane Admixture is that you have to take it for all of your key powers. The best damage powers that the Wizard has (Mordenkainen's Hound, the Prismatic Spells, etc) generally do not have the correct damage types. That means either you don't take them or you spend several feats just to make them work. It's bad either way.
Elemental Echoes is still nice because it's untyped.
The problem with Arcane Admixture is that you have to take it for all of your key powers. The best damage powers that the Wizard has (Mordenkainen's Hound, the Prismatic Spells, etc) generally do not have the correct damage types. That means either y
Lightning Weapon till 16, Staff of Ruin after? You can delay taking the Swordmage MC till level 11. Seems pretty straightforward to me. You get all the benefits from 1-16, and at 16 you get all the benefits+Staff of Ruin.
Lightning Weapon till 16, Staff of Ruin after? You can delay taking the Swordmage MC till level 11. Seems pretty straightforward to me. You get all the benefits from 1-16, and at 16 you get all the benefits+Staff of Ruin.
What sort of stat array would you suggest for a tiefling fire blaster build? I was thinking starting with 18 int pre racials, what would suggest for secondaries.
What sort of stat array would you suggest for a tiefling fire blaster build? I was thinking starting with 18 int pre racials, what would suggest for secondaries.
What sort of stat array would you suggest for a tiefling fire blaster build? I was thinking starting with 18 int pre racials, what would suggest for secondaries.
18 pre-racials in Int is definitely your best bet. After that, plan out your feats, see what you need to qualify for, then tailor your array to that.
18 pre-racials in Int is definitely your best bet. After that, plan out your feats, see what you need to qualify for, then tailor your array to that.
For a tiefling blaster, my humble opinion is that you go... 18 int, 13 dex, 13 wis at level 1 (pre-racial mods) It'll give you access to dual implement spellcaster and enlarge spell at level 1, and Wizard Implement Expertise and Spell Accuracy at level 21. I'm not sure which off-stat you'd want to bump, maybe Dex for Wand Specialist or Con for Staff. If you do Dex you can pick up Arcane Reach at 11 (could pick it up at 21 even if you don't bump it)
For implements, MH Accurate Flaming Staff, OH Staff of Ruin.
For a tiefling blaster, my humble opinion is that you go... 18 int, 13 dex, 13 wis at level 1 (pre-racial mods) It'll give you access to dual implement spellcaster and enlarge spell at level 1, and Wizard Implement Expertise and Spell Accuracy at l
For a tiefling blaster, my humble opinion is that you go... 18 int, 13 dex, 13 wis at level 1 (pre-racial mods) It'll give you dual implement spellcaster and enlarge spell at level 1, and Wizard Implement Expertise and Spell Accuracy at level 21. I'm not sure which off-stat you'd want to bump, maybe Dex for Wand Specialist or Con for Staff. If you do Dex you can pick up Arcane Reach at 11 (could pick it up at 21 even if you don't bump it)
For implements, MH Accurate Flaming Staff, OH Staff of Ruin.
Staff of Ruin no longer works in the off-hand.
And yes, you can have an Accurate Flaming Staff.
Staff of Ruin no longer works in the off-hand. And yes, you can have an Accurate Flaming Staff.
For a tiefling blaster, my humble opinion is that you go... 18 int, 13 dex, 13 wis at level 1 (pre-racial mods) It'll give you dual implement spellcaster and enlarge spell at level 1, and Wizard Implement Expertise and Spell Accuracy at level 21. I'm not sure which off-stat you'd want to bump, maybe Dex for Wand Specialist or Con for Staff. If you do Dex you can pick up Arcane Reach at 11 (could pick it up at 21 even if you don't bump it)
For implements, MH Accurate Flaming Staff, OH Staff of Ruin.
You don't need DIS for a while. It doesn't do anything until you get two magic implements, and even then weapon focus is better because it's cheaper. You don't need to worry about qualifying for it until late heroic or early paragon.
That said, seems like a pretty good array all in all. You automatically qualify for spell focus in paragon as long as you don't make cha your 8.
You don't need DIS for a while. It doesn't do anything until you get two magic implements, and even then weapon focus is better because it's cheaper. You don't need to worry about qualifying for it until late heroic or early paragon.That said, seems
Ytterbium_Dragon]You don't need DIS for a while. It doesn't do anything until you get two magic implements, and even then weapon focus is better because it's cheaper. You don't need to worry about qualifying for it until late heroic or early paragon.
Fair enough, I wouldn't pick up DIS at level 1, either... but I definitely prefer it before 11, I'm all about those +1s. Food for thought, Hellfire Arcanist is a feat that gives a feat bonus one higher than weapon focus to fire spells. Probably a good deal to retrain that once you pick up your first flaming wrote:
You don't need DIS for a while. It doesn't do anything until you get two magic implements, and even then weapon focus is better because it's cheaper. You don't need to worry about qualifying for it until late heroic or early paragon.[/quote]
Fair enough, I wouldn't pick up DIS at level 1, either... but I definitely prefer it before 11, I'm all about those +1s. Food for thought, Hellfire Arcanist is a feat that gives a feat bonus one higher than weapon focus to fire spells. Probably a good deal to retrain that once you pick up your first flaming staff.
Gah, gotta go reread the errata! :-(Fair enough, I wouldn't pick up DIS at level 1, either... but I definitely prefer it before 11, I'm all about those +1s. Food for thought, Hellfire Arcanist is a feat that gives a feat bonus one higher than weapon
My only problem with the flaming staff (which is pretty genius) is that its a lot more expensive than a staff of ruin which offers a lot more damage, if less choice in powers.
My only problem with the flaming staff (which is pretty genius) is that its a lot more expensive than a staff of ruin which offers a lot more damage, if less choice in powers.
My only problem with the flaming staff (which is pretty genius) is that its a lot more expensive than a staff of ruin which offers a lot more damage, if less choice in powers.
Those worse powers add up to be a lot more than the +X you are getting from the staff of ruin however. "Most" of the good blaster powers are not fire based and being forced to take the fire based ones can be weaken your character. Adding to that is the fact that the fire spells tend to roll more dice, making enlarge spell hurt a lot more.
Those worse powers add up to be a lot more than the +X you are getting from the staff of ruin however. "Most" of the good blaster powers are not fire based and being forced to take the fire based ones can be weaken your character. Adding to that
My only problem with the flaming staff (which is pretty genius) is that its a lot more expensive than a staff of ruin which offers a lot more damage, if less choice in powers.
Think about your best powers getting all modifiers from fire feats and items and you'll be very happy
Think about your best powers getting all modifiers from fire feats and items and you'll be very happy
Is Chosen/Demigod still top drawer? Divine Miracle's second nerfing (only get it back 1/enc, must be an attack) might put that destiny at regular blue (since an archlich (blue) also gets a bonus to the stat that matters, and otherwise now has stronger abilities, save -maybe- for the daily utility power).
Is Chosen/Demigod still top drawer? Divine Miracle's second nerfing (only get it back 1/enc, must be an attack) might put that destiny at regular blue (since an archlich (blue) also gets a bonus to the stat that matters, and otherwise now has strong
Is Chosen/Demigod still top drawer? Divine Miracle's second nerfing (only get it back 1/enc, must be an attack) might put that destiny at regular blue (since an archlich (blue) also gets a bonus to the stat that matters, and otherwise now has stronger abilities, save -maybe- for the daily utility power).
That's very true. I haven't even used it post nerf. I'll take another look at it.
That's very true. I haven't even used it post nerf. I'll take another look at it.
Hey YB, what's your opinion of the Warlock PP Long Night Scion (DM 374) for use with a frost-cheese build? My interest was piqued by Frost's Favor (my DM sadly rules that Frost Weapon doesn't add the keyword when used as an implement - unless one is using Sorcerous Blade Channeling). I also like the L20D Frozen Heart, as even the primary status effects dovetail nicely together. Even the L11E Wrath of the Pale Prince, while doing sucky damage itself, opens up an additional CA with Wintertouched.
So, what do you think? Are there better options for frost-cheese that I'm not seeing, or what?
Hey YB, what's your opinion of the Warlock PP Long Night Scion (DM 374) for use with a frost-cheese build? My interest was piqued by Frost's Favor (my DM sadly rules that Frost Weapon doesn't add the keyword when used as an implement - unless one i
I think that it's a very cool path and I definitely think that you can make it work. Post your build and we'll help you make it work. There are a couple reasons why I don't like recommending it to most Wizards:
- The build would practically be defined by the path, and Warlocks pull it off better (see Alpha's Slasher). - You have to stay in melee range to make use of the teleport feature, which most Wizards will not want to be. - It's going to be nerfed in July.
Also, it's going to hurt making a frost wizard that can't use a Frost Weapon. Would he allow Malec-Keth Janissary?
I think that it's a very cool path and I definitely think that you can make it work. Post your build and we'll help you make it work. There are a couple reasons why I don't like recommending it to most Wizards:- The build would practically be defined
My scorching burst does around 62 damage and crits for around 110.
Is there any way you can break it down for us? Im sure I could probably pick up a new trick or two for coming up with ways to stack damage. I don't see how you cough up 59 damage in modifiers.
Keep in mind you second wind 2/enc as a free action (12 surges).
Level 30 damage boost for dwarf wizard: 7 Base damage from 2d6 7 damage from 24 int 7 rune scribed soul (add con to dmg after second wind for 1 turn) 6 from DIS 3 Weapon Focus Staff 4 Destructive wizardry (+4 dmg if you hit 2 targets) 6 Runic Starweave Armor (+6 dmg after second wind for 2 turns) 6 Pierced heart tattoo (+6 damage after second wind 1 turn) 5 siberys shard of the mage (epic tier) 6 cunning quarterstaff +6 11 bloodmage cutting = 68 average damage with AOE at will.
Accuracy: Roll Twice for 2 rounds after you second wind (godmind epic destiny) +2 Opal Ring of remembrance (nerf) +1 accurate +6 enhancement on cunning quarterstaff +7 int mod +3 expertise +1 rune scribed soul (after second wind for 1 round) +2 redoubled efforts (after second wind for 2 rounds) +15 half level = +37 and Roll Twice on all attacks. (and most attacks are vs will or reflex)
The rolling twice is like another +4 or 5 meaning this is like +41 or so.
Crit on 19 but 2/day crit on 17-20 and rolling twice means 35% chance to crit: +12 Ring of Giant +prone (assault boots) +11 Executioner's bracers gain 18 temp hps (stalwart belt, this helps with bloodmage cutting) +6d8 cunning quarterstaff +6
Also when I second wind I kill all minions within 10 because of my bloodmage paragon path. The DM loves when I kill all his minions as a free action 2/encounter.
I also get +6 to my defenses when I second wind from off hand staff of defense. I am a staff wizard with 24 con so I can get another +7 to defenses using that.
So I have great AOE dps but the best part is the very accurate AOE stuns. I have 6/day very hard to miss with and -9 to save vs stun or -11 if the stun has the fear keyword. So it truly is a super accurate high dps controller build. You could drop all the -save stuff and go more dps if you wanted to pretend to be a striker.
Is there any way you can break it down for us? Im sure I could probably pick up a new trick or two for coming up with ways to stack damage. I don't see how you cough up 59 damage in modifiers.Keep in mind you second wind 2/enc as a free action
I think that it's a very cool path and I definitely think that you can make it work. Post your build and we'll help you make it work. There are a couple reasons why I don't like recommending it to most Wizards:
- The build would practically be defined by the path, and Warlocks pull it off better (see Alpha's Slasher). - You have to stay in melee range to make use of the teleport feature, which most Wizards will not want to be. - It's going to be nerfed in July.
Also, it's going to hurt making a frost wizard that can't use a Frost Weapon. Would he allow Malec-Keth Janissary?
As to my build, there are only a couple problems: first, its house-ruled pretty hard (this DM likes to throw lvl+2-4 encounters at us regularly, and so we worked out some perks that let him do this without TPKing us every fight. Couple extra feats, modified dice rolled stats, things of that nature).
Secondly, much of what I've taken is nonsensical from an optimization pov, but makes sense when the general encounter style we have is known. I tend to wind up in melee quite a bit (not of my own volition - DM makes the Defender work for his mark, and feels that enemies by default will go for the characters they perceive to be the easiest kill). Conversely, because I am in melee so often - for one or two rounds/encounter at the least - the teleport buff will work quite well for me.
Teleports aren't the hallmark of this character (defense and anti-mark are more my style), but I've got two or three options at this point (just entering paragon today) so I'm fine as far as that goes.
In regards to Malec-Keth Janissary: While the DM would allow a character build that included this, thematically its all wrong for the character. I'm playing a character from fiction (Harry Dresden, and I've gotten permission from Butcher to do so! ^.^), so a Lock multiclass is a must.
As of Changes, Harry becomes the Winter Knight, thus forming a Pact with the Winter Fey... another reason I liked the Scion.
I'm glad you approve of the PP. I've got other things in my bag for frost-cheese (and the Pally w/ frost-cheese is just one of them!), and its not supposed to be the only damage type for this character. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.A
As to my build, there are only a couple problems: first, its house-ruled pretty hard (this DM likes to throw lvl+2-4 encounters at us regularly, and so we worked out some perks that let him do this without TPKing us every fight. Couple extra feat
Keep in mind you second wind 2/enc as a free action (12 surges).
Level 30 damage boost for dwarf wizard: 7 Base damage from 2d6 7 damage from 24 int 7 rune scribed soul (add con to dmg after second wind for 1 turn) 6 from DIS 3 Weapon Focus Staff 4 Destructive wizardry (+4 dmg if you hit 2 targets) 6 Runic Starweave Armor (+6 dmg after second wind for 2 turns) 6 Pierced heart tattoo (+6 damage after second wind 1 turn) 5 siberys shard of the mage (epic tier) 6 cunning quarterstaff +6 11 bloodmage cutting = 68 average damage with AOE at will.
Very cool. I didn't realize it was possible to get so much damage increase out of using second wind.
A minor aside: you can't use bloodmage cutting with an at-will.
"Bolstering Blood (11th level): You learn to turn your own pain into additional pain for your enemies. When you use a wizard encounter power, a wizard daily power, or a blood mage power that deals damage, you can, once per turn as a free action just prior to using the power, deal either a minor wound or a severe wound to yourself."
Very cool. I didn't realize it was possible to get so much damage increase out of using second wind.A minor aside: you can't use bloodmage cutting with an at-will."Bolstering Blood (11th level): You learn to turn your own pain into additional pain
"Bolstering Blood (11th level): You learn to turn your own pain into additional pain for your enemies. When you use a wizard encounter power, a wizard daily power, or a blood mage power that deals damage, you can, once per turn as a free action just prior to using the power, deal either a minor wound or a severe wound to yourself."
Oops, I definitely cheated a few times then. Most of my standard action attacks were encounter and daily powers as fights generally didn't last long enough for me to run out but I still used some scorching bursts.
Yeah I had +3 to hit (roll twice) and +19 damage from second wind, not to mention the defense bonuses and the often ignored paragon path ability. Which is why I had to be a dwarf of course. It certainly does not seem like a good race for a wizard until you realize all the bonuses.
Oops, I definitely cheated a few times then. Most of my standard action attacks were encounter and daily powers as fights generally didn't last long enough for me to run out but I still used some scorching bursts.Yeah I had +3 to hit (roll twice) and
Updated for the Class Acts Wizards article. Some decent options for Fire Blasters. Here are the feats that didn't make the cut and why they didn't make the cut:
Sympathy of Flame: You have more reliable ways to get a feat bonus to damage rolls
Consuming the Weak: does nothing too often. You can't force fire vulnerability like Frost users can.
Updated for the Class Acts Wizards article. Some decent options for Fire Blasters. Here are the feats that didn't make the cut and why they didn't make the cut:Sympathy of Flame: You have more reliable ways to get a feat bonus to damage rollsConsumin
Although that would be awesome for the character I've made. Wintercheese using Arcane Fire as opposed to Lasting Frost (since post nerf LF only affects the first creature hit with a cold power, and AF gives 5 cold vuln to anything hit with an arcane fire attack) is my current modus operandi, and a way to do that in reverse would be awesome.
Although that would be awesome for the character I've made. Wintercheese using Arcane Fire as opposed to Lasting Frost (since post nerf LF only affects the first creature hit with a cold power, and AF gives 5 cold vuln to anything hit with an arcane
Updated for the Class Acts Wizards article. Some decent options for Fire Blasters. Here are the feats that didn't make the cut and why they didn't make the cut:
Sympathy of Flame: You have more reliable ways to get a feat bonus to damage rolls
Consuming the Weak: does nothing too often. You can't force fire vulnerability like Frost users can.
Actually you can, to some extent anyways. I would at least mention that you can combine it with a Whetstone of Combustion to force Fire Vulnerability -- works fine for LFR games where you typically have 3 combats.
And +6 feat damage seems quite nice as well.
Actually you can, to some extent anyways. I would at least mention that you can combine it with a Whetstone of Combustion to force Fire Vulnerability -- works fine for LFR games where you typically have 3 combats. And +6 feat damage seems quite
It's a good find (and I meant to respond to it when you brought it up in the other thread), but I have to disagree on its usefulness before epic tier and question it at epic tier.
Your whetstone uses are limited by your magic item daily uses (AV 189). That means you're only getting 1 use of it in heroic, 2 in paragon, and 3 in epic before milestones. In heroic and paragon, that often means you're going without it for at least one encounter, which wastes the feats for that encounter. That's a big loss. Your feats and GP are better spent elsewhere.
I do acknowledge that it's a great trick for epic tier. However, by epic tier, you're likely going to have a lot of feats on your wish list, putting them on the back-burner for a while until your retrain slots start to free up.
I'll revisit the feats' usefulness in epic tier based on this item, and thanks for bringing it up. Sorry it doesn't work so well earlier (it would be awesome if it did).
It's a good find (and I meant to respond to it when you brought it up in the other thread), but I have to disagree on its usefulness before epic tier and question it at epic tier.Your whetstone uses are limited by your magic item daily uses (AV 189).
Updated for the Class Acts Wizards article. Some decent options for Fire Blasters. Here are the feats that didn't make the cut and why they didn't make the cut:
Sympathy of Flame: You have more reliable ways to get a feat bonus to damage rolls
Consuming the Weak: does nothing too often. You can't force fire vulnerability like Frost users can.
Actually you can, to some extent anyways. I would at least mention that you can combine it with a Whetstone of Combustion to force Fire Vulnerability -- works fine for LFR games where you typically have 3 combats.
And +6 feat damage seems quite nice as well.
I added your suggestion while explaining its drawbacks. I still can't fully recommend it before mid/late paragon, but at that point it's a beastly combo. Thanks again for pointing it out (twice, lol).
Actually you can, to some extent anyways. I would at least mention that you can combine it with a Whetstone of Combustion to force Fire Vulnerability -- works fine for LFR games where you typically have 3 combats. And +6 feat damage seems quite
I added your suggestion while explaining its drawbacks. I still can't fully recommend it before mid/late paragon, but at that point it's a beastly combo. Thanks again for pointing it out (twice, lol).
Cool, glad to have it added.
I'm very biased towards LFR, which probably explains my view on it (it tends to follow 3 combats + 1 Skill Challenge as a format).
Cool, glad to have it added. :)I'm very biased towards LFR, which probably explains my view on it :-D (it tends to follow 3 combats + 1 Skill Challenge as a format).
Thanks a lot for writing this. I've found it to be very helpful.
One nitpick, however - Phantasmal Horror (L17 encounter) is from AP, not PHB.
EDIT: "Staff of Ruin (AV) - Now that it only works in your offhand, Blasters must seriously consider whether they want a bit of extra damage on all powers or the ability to choose better powers by converting them to their respective damage types via an elemental weapon."
This should be "... Now that it only works in your main hand", I think.
Thanks a lot for writing this. I've found it to be very helpful.One nitpick, however - Phantasmal Horror (L17 encounter) is from AP, not PHB.EDIT: "Staff of Ruin (AV) - Now that it only works in your offhand, Blasters must seriously consider whether
Thanks a lot for writing this. I've found it to be very helpful.
One nitpick, however - Phantasmal Horror (L17 encounter) is from AP, not PHB.
EDIT: "Staff of Ruin (AV) - Now that it only works in your offhand, Blasters must seriously consider whether they want a bit of extra damage on all powers or the ability to choose better powers by converting them to their respective damage types via an elemental weapon."
This should be "... Now that it only works in your main hand", I think.
Yes and yes. Thanks! These types of catches are very, very much appreciated.
Yes and yes. Thanks! These types of catches are very, very much appreciated.
Good tip there, went and backed it up.Heres the cached link to the text only version as the html version wasn't working right in cache.webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=...Unsure of how long it's available.
I sincerely hope that this was some accidental issue like an account hack and not related to any issues he had with Shaku in the other thread. This guide was one of the best written and well thought out guides on the boards and though I don't play artificers, I imagine that one was of similar quality.
I sincerely hope that this was some accidental issue like an account hack and not related to any issues he had with Shaku in the other thread. This guide was one of the best written and well thought out guides on the boards and though I don't play a
Also, I respect the need to preserve a good guide, but if the OP wanted to leave the boards but leave his guide here, he wouldn't have a'd it out.
edit: that assumes he had a meltdown and didn't get hacked, of course.
Also, I respect the need to preserve a good guide, but if the OP wanted to leave the boards but leave his guide here, he wouldn't have a'd it out.edit: that assumes he had a meltdown and didn't get hacked, of course.
Well, now we don't have a single up-to-date wizard guide. I am beginning to think this particular class is cursed. Just look at how many abandoned guides there are!
Well, now we don't have a single up-to-date wizard guide. I am beginning to think this particular class is cursed. Just look at how many abandoned guides there are!
This is really a shame. Yeah, we need someone to take over the Wizard Handbook, ASAP. We don't have one otherwise that's even remotely up-to-date, or complete.
And before anyone asks, no, I'm not doing it. I have too much going on in real life, and my Wizard knowledge isn't enough to write a whole handbook.
*bump*This is really a shame. Yeah, we need someone to take over the Wizard Handbook, ASAP. We don't have one otherwise that's even remotely up-to-date, or complete.And before anyone asks, no, I'm not doing it. I have too much going on in real life,
I'd take the privilege to write the handbook... but i know next to nothing about elemental damage feats and ways to exploit implements.
I think that my work may be too "basic" for the CO board.
I'd take the privilege to write the handbook... but i know next to nothing about elemental damage feats and ways to exploit implements. I think that my work may be too "basic" for the CO board.
Maybe we should just set up a guide within the wiki. That way anyone can add to and it's not on the shoulder of any one person. We could split up the work as needed. Heck, I might see about setting that up this weekend if no one else jumps on it. Maybe some one whose already done a hand book can lay out the intro and sections and we can fill it out from there.
Maybe we should just set up a guide within the wiki. That way anyone can add to and it's not on the shoulder of any one person. We could split up the work as needed. Heck, I might see about setting that up this weekend if no one else jumps on i
I second the wiki guide idea. I don't have enough charop ability to write a whole guide, but wizards are my favorite class and I for one would be glad to help gather data and keep things up to date. whoever starts the wiki should also start a new thread to enlist help for the guide.
I second the wiki guide idea. I don't have enough charop ability to write a whole guide, but wizards are my favorite class and I for one would be glad to help gather data and keep things up to date. whoever starts the wiki should also start a new thr
I second the wiki guide idea. I don't have enough charop ability to write a whole guide, but wizards are my favorite class and I for one would be glad to help gather data and keep things up to date. whoever starts the wiki should also start a new thread to enlist help for the guide.
With very few exceptions, moving a guide to the wiki has been a direct path to it's demise. We have the text of YD's book, sans formatting. In light of that, I'm just going to create a community forum account, repost that information, and those COers that are "in the know" for wizards can feel free to modify it from there.
With very few exceptions, moving a guide to the wiki has been a direct path to it's demise. We have the text of YD's book, sans formatting. In light of that, I'm just going to create a community forum account, repost that information, and those COers
How is that community account approach that much different than running it through the wiki? If sounds like in both cases you're creating a common area that multiple authors can edit. It just seem like you're requiring an extra step with the community account.
I'm not trying to put the idea down I'm just honestly confused by wiki = death, but not-quite-wiki is fine. Is it the linked forum thread? In that case you could just have the wiki link in the first post and get the same result with needing special account tricks.
How is that community account approach that much different than running it through the wiki? If sounds like in both cases you're creating a common area that multiple authors can edit. It just seem like you're requiring an extra step with the comm
I think the key is that the forum discussion that accompanies a guide thread both keeps it up on the first page where it'll stay in people's mind, and on top of that the discussion often helps refine the ratings and introduce alternative viewpoints on options. While a wiki can be linked to in the Collection thread, it's still more out of sight that way and is harder to discuss.
I think the key is that the forum discussion that accompanies a guide thread both keeps it up on the first page where it'll stay in people's mind, and on top of that the discussion often helps refine the ratings and introduce alternative viewpoints o
Also, I respect the need to preserve a good guide, but if the OP wanted to leave the boards but leave his guide here, he wouldn't have a'd it out.
Y_D was the maintainer of the guide, and that's a lot of work, but the forum itself and particularly anybody who posted in any handbook thread is as much an author of it as he was.
Quitting the forums in disgust is totally understandable. I've left this place several times for long stretches when I've grown tired of what's going on. Going and deleting content which other people find valuable -- including those you're not even angry with and are completely innocent (many of whom don't even post at all!) -- is just being a jerk.
Y_D was the maintainer of the guide, and that's a lot of work, but the forum itself and particularly anybody who posted in any handbook thread is as much an author of it as he was.Quitting the forums in disgust is totally understandable. I've left
For what it's worth I found the guide useful even if I disagreed with large portions of it.
However, the guide at least morally belongs to its instigator and editor and we should not be taking his intellectual property and republishing it.
The contributions made by individuals are documented in their posts and the correct thing to do is to take those posts and create a new guide with those inputs.
For what it's worth I found the guide useful even if I disagreed with large portions of it.However, the guide at least morally belongs to its instigator and editor and we should not be taking his intellectual property and republishing it.The contribu
For what it's worth I found the guide useful even if I disagreed with large portions of it.
However, the guide at least morally belongs to its instigator and editor and we should not be taking his intellectual property and republishing it.
The contributions made by individuals are documented in their posts and the correct thing to do is to take those posts and create a new guide with those inputs.
Actually read the Terms of Use, the IP belongs to Wotc not the author. Here's the blocked info for easy read. Therefore, as it belongs to Wotc, I'm sure they'd be fine with re-posting it. Too bad YD left, but the way he left was as a jack@$$.
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Actually read the Terms of Use, the IP belongs to Wotc not the author. Here's the blocked info for easy read. Therefore, as it belongs to Wotc, I'm sure they'd be fine with re-posting it. Too bad YD left, but the way he left was as a jack@$$. Spoil
Can you post that somewhere else? I've tried 3 times to download it, but every time I have to take an IQ test, it asks me to download something, and as soon as I install it it restarts my browser (and hence my pending download of this file).
The Google cache has also since been updated, so it doesn't have the guide anymore.
Can you post that somewhere else? I've tried 3 times to download it, but every time I have to take an IQ test, it asks me to download something, and as soon as I install it it restarts my browser (and hence my pending download of this file).The Goo
For what it's worth I found the guide useful even if I disagreed with large portions of it.
However, the guide at least morally belongs to its instigator and editor and we should not be taking his intellectual property and republishing it.
The contributions made by individuals are documented in their posts and the correct thing to do is to take those posts and create a new guide with those inputs.
Actually read the Terms of Use, the IP belongs to Wotc not the author. Here's the blocked info for easy read. Therefore, as it belongs to Wotc, I'm sure they'd be fine with re-posting it. Too bad YD left, but the way he left was as a jack@$$.
I did read the Terms of Use. That's why I said what I said. Morally the guide belongs to the editor and instigator. That is of course only an opinion.
Actually read the Terms of Use, the IP belongs to Wotc not the author. Here's the blocked info for easy read. Therefore, as it belongs to Wotc, I'm sure they'd be fine with re-posting it. Too bad YD left, but the way he left was as a jack@$$. I did
I just re-read my post in your quote. It came out way, way more dickish than I meant it to. Sorry 'bout that.
Not sure I agree with "republishing it" either as it's not being published anywhere (unless WoTC decides to that is). It's a post on an internet forum where people go to have fun and debate about characters.
I just re-read my post in your quote. It came out way, way more dickish than I meant it to. Sorry 'bout that. Not sure I agree with "republishing it" either as it's not being published anywhere (unless WoTC decides to that is). It's a post on an inte
I just re-read my post in your quote. It came out way, way more dickish than I meant it to. Sorry 'bout that.
Not sure I agree with "republishing it" either as it's not being published anywhere (unless WoTC decides to that is). It's a post on an internet forum where people go to have fun and debate about characters.
YtD has been in contact with a few people. Rest assured, it will not be reposted without his consent.
YtD has been in contact with a few people. Rest assured, it will not be reposted without his consent.
I just re-read my post in your quote. It came out way, way more dickish than I meant it to. Sorry 'bout that.
Not sure I agree with "republishing it" either as it's not being published anywhere (unless WoTC decides to that is). It's a post on an internet forum where people go to have fun and debate about characters.
YtD has been in contact with a few people. Rest assured, it will not be reposted without his consent.
I sincerely hope those people can convince him to come back to the boards. I relied on him and LDB for great quality guides.
YtD has been in contact with a few people. Rest assured, it will not be reposted without his consent.I sincerely hope those people can convince him to come back to the boards. I relied on him and LDB for great quality guides.
I just re-read my post in your quote. It came out way, way more dickish than I meant it to. Sorry 'bout that.
Not sure I agree with "republishing it" either as it's not being published anywhere (unless WoTC decides to that is). It's a post on an internet forum where people go to have fun and debate about characters.
YtD has been in contact with a few people. Rest assured, it will not be reposted without his consent.
Hello,
I'm a longtime lurker and occasional poster. I can't say I agree with YtD's decision here. I enjoyed his guides and used this one heavily in building my current illusionist wizard. I'm sure a lot of effort went into writing it and maintaining it for the community. I certainly appreciated that effort.
I do not know the circumstances of YtD's departure so I don't want to presume to know his motivation for leaving. As far as I can tell it wasn't generally announced. However I can't fathom why he would want to take away such a useful resource from the community. In my opinion, the whole point of these guides is to help people, especially those new to the game, figure out how to build an effective and enjoyable character. If they can be taken away at a moment's notice, it undermines a valuable service that this board provides. I'd hate to have that be the precedent established for these guides. This really argues for going to wiki pages for the guides or using a collective account where the content isn't viewed as the property of a single user.
When LDB took a break from the forums, I found his decision to turn the guides over to the community to be admirable. I wish I could say the same here.
LM
YtD has been in contact with a few people. Rest assured, it will not be reposted without his consent.Hello,I'm a longtime lurker and occasional poster. I can't say I agree with YtD's decision here. I enjoyed his guides and used this one heavily
Anyone actually know what happened to make him ragequit the forums? Seems like a mystery for one to erase so much effort, especially such a respected handbook.
Anyone actually know what happened to make him ragequit the forums? Seems like a mystery for one to erase so much effort, especially such a respected handbook.
Anyone actually know what happened to make him ragequit the forums? Seems like a mystery for one to erase so much effort, especially such a respected handbook.
This is his last post that I can see from the Editor Greg Bilsland thread. The last thing he says is, "Anyway, I'm done dealing with you trolls. If you want to wallow in your own ignorance, go ahead, and if you bring the game down with you, so be it."
Seems like a ragequit to me.
This is his last post that I can see from the Editor Greg Bilsland thread. The last thing he says is, "Anyway, I'm done dealing with you trolls. If you want to wallow in your own ignorance, go ahead, and if you bring the game down with you, so be i
(it tends to follow 3 combats + 1 Skill Challenge as a format).
