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Oct 10, 2009 -- 9:57AM, Ravenmancer wrote:

Oct 10, 2009 -- 8:53AM, Cyber-Dave wrote:

P.S. No Focused Expertise (shadowblade) feat is needed. The focused expertise feats are taken in weapon groups. In order to gain focused expertise with a shadowblade, what you would take is focused expertise (light blade), because that is what a shadowblade is. You can, already, do that. What they need to do is create a "shadowblade" item for the character builder, if they haven't already...

 

No, Weapon Expertise is tied to weapon groups, Focused Expertise is tied to specific weapon types.  You can take Weapon Expertise (Light Blades), but would have to take Focused Expertise (Daggers), for example.

However, you still wouldn't want to take Focused Expertise (Shadowblade) because you can't enchant your Shadowblade.  Ki Focus does not apply it's enchantment bonus to your weapon when you use it as an implement.  Only when you use your weapon as a weapon.  The Ki Focus is your implement.

Oh me oh my. You are correct. I am mistaken. My bad. Terribly sorry...

Logically, focused expertise must work with ki focus for the concept of ki focus to work. The purpose of ki focus was to make it possible for an assassin to be able to pick up any mundane item and use it on the fly. Does a situation require a dagger? The assassin can use that. Can the assassin pull in something more effective, like a great sword, to the situation? Great. An assassin can use that too! But, to make that concept work, the assassin must be able to apply the benefit of the expertise line of feats to ALL weapons with ONE feat. Otherwise, realistically, an assassin will get pegged into a single weapons just like everyone else who uses implement and weapon attacks: the weapon in which they take the focused expertise feat. For the ki focus feat ability to work ala how the devs have said they want it to work, it is necessary that a focused expertise style feat exist. And, in this very thread, a DDi dev has said that they are aware of the problems with the to-hit calculations for focused expertise (ki focus), and will be addressing them. This indicates that the existence of the feat is not a mistake, only the ways in which the feats bonus to hit is interacting with other bonuses to hit, currently, is a problem.

If you don't trust me on this you are free to wait until the next assassin article in December. But, seeing as the devs say IN THE ASSASSIN ARTICLE ITSELF that the assassin is supposed to be able to wield any weapon on the fly, and that the ki focus class ability names this as the point of that ability, I don't know how anyone could believe that the existence of a focused expertise (ki focus) feat is a mistake.

Oct 10, 2009 -- 7:34PM, Cyber-Dave wrote:

Logically, focused expertise must work with ki focus for the concept of ki focus to work.

I just disagree.

For the ki focus feat ability to work ala how the devs have said they want it to work, it is necessary that a focused expertise style feat exist. And, in this very thread, a DDi dev has said that they are aware of the problems with the to-hit calculations for focused expertise (ki focus), and will be addressing them. This indicates that the existence of the feat is not a mistake, only the ways in which the feats bonus to hit is interacting with other bonuses to his, currently, is a problem.

And that's the kind of reference I was looking for.  Although there is no Dev post in this thread.  There was a post by Trevor (Community lead) who is not a Dev and he didn't mention anything about FE: Ki Focus.  In fact he even called it an implement.  The article calls them implements.  That's why I was looking for a link to a post by Mearls (who wrote the class) or a CS response who presumably should check with the devs to answer the question, because without an explicit reference, they're implements and don't qualify.

If you don't trust me on this you are free to wait until the next assassin article in December. But, seeing as the devs say IN THE ASSASSIN ARTICLE ITSELF that the assassin is supposed to be able to wield any weapon on the fly, and that the ki focus class ability names this as the point of that ability, I don't know how anyone could believe that the existence of a focused expertise (ki focus) feat is a mistake.

It isn't a matter of trust.  It's that without a explicit reference, I cannot, by applying the rules we have, see that it works with Focused Expertise because every reference to Ki Foci are that they are implements and you can't take Focused Expertise for an implement.

"You can imbue your ki focus with magic as if it were a physical implement."

I believe Focused Expertise (Ki Focus) is a mistake in the CB, but I think it was implemented because that's the easiest way for them to make it work the way it's supposed to.  Just taking Implement Expertise wouldn't add to the auto calculations for weapon attacks.  It seems like a hack more than anythign else.  If they release explicit rules saying that they indeed can take FE for Ki Foci, then all well and good.  Same if a Dev has stated as such.  Until then it's just interpretation.

In a home game, none of this amounts to much because you can do/allow whatever you want.  I play primarily in the RPGA where we are expected to play by the RAW and not add in our own interpretation of the rules except where somethign is blatantly ambiguous and hasn't been addressed in a FAQ or Update.