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Dungeons & Dra.. Homebrew Campaigns Fireclave's Guide to 4e Race Mechanic Creation
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2009 - 11:15AM #161
Eisenritter
Date Joined: Oct 16, 2009
Posts: 1,024
I have the diclonius, here:  community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...[PEACH__Race_two_paragon_paths_epic_destiny_and_feats]

Almost all crunch at the moment, except for a list of suggestions for names.  I'd be eager to see what, if anything, master Crimson would have to say on the new stuff. Innocent
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2009 - 12:27PM #162
Crimson_Concerto
Date Joined: Aug 28, 2005
Posts: 9,929
I actually already gave my input on them in the original thread. =)
But yeah, their racial write-up looks perfectly fine. I'm not as good a judge of feats and paragon paths (I must admit I have a fair bit of trouble designing them myself), but I don't see any big problems from an initial read-through.
Only thing I might suggest is that there be some sort of range limitation to the Vital Link paragon path feature. Right now, it works clear across the plane and even if you and your ally aren't in battle together. Also, Vital Link looks really powerful if it performs that much surgeless healing, so I might suggest turning that into temporary HP, and even still, that seems like a lot of temporary HP to be throwing around...

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM

Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask?
"If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB
"If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave
"WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm
"Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha

Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.

Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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3 years ago  ::  Nov 25, 2009 - 9:28PM #163
Kroska
Date Joined: Oct 21, 2009
Posts: 103
My responses are in bolded blue

Nov 25, 2009 -- 1:32AM, Crimson_Concerto wrote:

Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution


Races that get both of their ability score boosts towards ability scores that improve the same defense generally get a +1 racial defense boost to make up for it. For example, the Eladrin with +2 DEX and +2 INT gets a +1 bonus to Will, and the Goliath with +2 STR and +2 CON gets a +1 bonus to Will as well.


Oh yeah, I forgot about that little mechanic. I'll add in +1 to will because reflex doesn't exactly suit the piles of meat of dretches are.


Vision: Darkvision


Darkvision is supposed to be avoided except in a very limited number of circumstances, and I don't see why this should be one. Low-Light should be good enough.

Yeah I was going off the monster manual entry a little too closely, I overlooked that all of the races have normal vision or low light; no exceptions made. Knotching that vision down to low light with some cataracts.


Flexible Resistance: After an extended rest, select one: Acid, Necrotic, Radiant, Thunder, Force, Lightning, Poison, Fire, or Cold. Gain resistance 2 + 1/2 level of the selected type until your next extended rest.


Instead of listing every damage type out, why don't you just say "Select a damage type"? You've got everything but Psychic on that list anyways, and I don't see any reason to bar it to begin with, so...


Yeah, select a damage type condenses a lot more text, thanks.


Raical powers in general:
I think that Close burst 2 is too much for either of those powers if they're going to do that much damage. Either make them Close burst 1 or change to damage to only the damage die or only an ability score modifier but not both.

I have the burst so large on account that the creature hit can actually choose not to take the damage by either not moving with sticky miasma or moving away with repulsive miasma.  All the while the move has to hit. But never the less i may just crank it down to close burst 1 anyway.

Hit: The target takes 1d6 + Str, Con, or Dex modifier damage the next time it takes a move action before the end of your next turn.


I understand neither the flavor nor the mechanic behind this power. What's supposed to be going on here conceptually? Also
any move action? Even move action that don't actually move you like standing up? What about teleporting? Does this even affect shifts? I don't know, this seems awefully general to the point where I don't get what it's supposed to be doing or why.

Yeah it is basically just a mechanic for now that was thought to be interesting. I havn't really created the flavor for it yet. I just have all this on here to go through the stage of "Are the mechanics balanced?" So yeah, any move action really,would trigger it.  And besides, shifting counts as a move action, along with standing up and teleporting from an area is not.  But those are just basic rules anyway.

Effect: At the start of your next turn, make an attack against each enemy in close burst 2.


Again, I don't get what the point of this power is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to actually repel anything at all, and I don't understand what's up with this delayed attack thing. You need to clarify what this power is supposed to be doing and why from a flavor perspective, because right now, it just looks like a random mechanic without any obvious flavor behind it.




This power is supposed to repel creatures on some level. The reason why there are two different miasma's to choose from in the first place is that it gives the race utility for multiple classes that may be melee and want enemies to stay close or to be ranged and want enemies to stay away.  The flavor for the repulsive miasma may be like a lingering smell, if you stay in proximity too long it becomes more and more potent until you are undertaken by the smell.

Thanks for your critique sir. I'll probably come out with a official looking race page with full flavor and fixed mechanics later on.

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3 years ago  ::  Dec 01, 2009 - 9:15AM #164
DreamerInsane
Date Joined: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 380
One thing that just popped into my mind. How good is specific terrain walk generally considered? I'm thinking of replacing the Elf's Group Awareness with forest walk. Running through them woods things just seems more elfy than a freak aura that makes all nonelves (why nonelves?) suddenly all sharp-eyed and stuff.
Trying to help "I'm original" people build better decks is self-sabotage: Good advice will inevitably be ignored because someone did it before.
The gist of Magic is going to MWS/MTGO, playing Island, Ponder and watching the opponent ragequit.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2010 - 10:14AM #165
egg_thallid_sandwich
Date Joined: Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 315

so the new Vanara looks something like this...


Vanara


Ability scores: +2 wis / +2 int or +2 dex
Size: medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: low light
Languages: common, elven
Skill bonuses: +2 stealth +2 acrobatics
Tree Dweller: Choose long jumper or sure climber, you gain the choosen feat as a bonus feat even if you dont meet the prerequisites.
Monkey Business: you can use Monkey Business as an encounter power.

Monkey Business              Vanara racial power
Your playful nature may cause your foe to make a slip up.
Encounter
immediate reaction, personal
trigger: an enemy targets your AC or reflex defense with an attack.
effect: The enemy rolls the attack twice and uses the result of your choice.


Play a Vanara is you want...
* to look like a monkey.
* to be a clever trickster or wise sage.
* to leap and climb with natural ease.
* to be a race that favors the avenger, druid, invoker, monk, psion, ranger, seeker, shaman and wizard classes

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3 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2010 - 1:00PM #166
Crimson_Concerto
Date Joined: Aug 28, 2005
Posts: 9,929

Jan 6, 2010 -- 10:14AM, egg_thallid_sandwich wrote:

Ability scores: +2 wis / +2 int or +2 dex


*sigh*
Copying what the Changeling does has becomes really popular with home-brews lately, but I will continue to discourage it until I see a race other than Changeling where it actually fits. Look, the reason why the Changeling gets to do this is because flexibility and versatility are the entire point of playing a Changeling. If your race's flavor isn't totally about flexibility and versatility, then such ability score options don't belong on your race.

Tree Dweller: Choose long jumper or sure climber, you gain the choosen feat as a bonus feat even if you dont meet the prerequisites.


Giving out a bonus feat is sort of an easy and unoriginal way of going about racial features, but even if you'd prefer to keep it, having this as your solitary racial feature is underpowered.

Monkey Business              Vanara racial power
Your playful nature may cause your foe to make a slip up.
Encounter
immediate reaction, personal
trigger: an enemy targets your AC or reflex defense with an attack.
effect: The enemy rolls the attack twice and uses the result of your choice.


This should probably be an immediate interrupt as opposed to an immediate reaction.
Also, it's not optimally worded. This makes it seem as though the enemy rolled once and then is now going to roll twice for a total of three rolls. Instead, I'd have power be worded such that it forces the enemy to roll one more time and use that result if it's lower. Though with your limitation of what sort of attack it can apply to, this would be weaker than the Halfling's Second Chance.

Basically, your race is just too weak.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM

Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask?
"If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB
"If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave
"WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm
"Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha

Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.

Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2010 - 9:28PM #167
egg_thallid_sandwich
Date Joined: Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 315
the attribute bonuses were a stab at trying to get the vanra to favor the classes that flavorwise i think they should, int/wis were there 3.5 stats and they were played as mainly casters monks and rangers. to give them that monk, ranger feel i thought maybe dex seemed appropriate. but i see what you mean i would feel more comfortable seeing this in anothr race again first.

originally it was both feats and people said that was over powered, yes feats are unoriginal but I used the 3.5 vanara as an inspiration and jumping and climbing is basically all they do. so if two feats is over powered and one choice of two is underpowered then what am i to do with them.

the encounter power is worded similar to the way the avenger's oath of enmity power is, i wanted it to work similar to that power rather than the halfling's second chance power wich triggers after an attack is rolled. it is an imediate reaction because the trigger is you becoming the target of the attack not your enemy rolls an attack. it says your enemy rolls twice cuz you're oath of clumsinessing your enemy. they target you, you make them roll twice, you make them use the result of your choice... it couldnt be simpler. i don't think it's wording needs to be changed but yes the limitation makes it weak i wasn't sure why i suggested it in the first place, flavor i guess, like the idea is that they trip you up or something i dont see fancy footwork having anything to do with a will or fortitude attack.
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2010 - 9:55PM #168
egg_thallid_sandwich
Date Joined: Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 315
3.5 Vanara
+2 int, +2 wis, -2 str
size: medium
speed: 30ft climb 20ft
skills: +8 climb, +4 to balance and jump, +2 to hide and move silently
vision: low light
languages: comon, vanara
bonus languages: giant, goblin, spirit tongue, sylvan
favored class: shaman
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3 years ago  ::  Jan 06, 2010 - 10:14PM #169
egg_thallid_sandwich
Date Joined: Jan 29, 2007
Posts: 315
Vanara

Ability scores: +2 dex, +2 wis
Size: medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: low light
Languages: common, elven
Skill bonuses: +2 stealth +2 acrobatics
Tree Dweller: gain long jumper and sure climber as bonus feats even if you dont meet the prerequisites.
Monkey Business: you can use Monkey Business as an encounter power.

Monkey Business              Vanara racial power
Your playful nature may cause your foe to make a slip up.
Encounter
immediate inturrupt, personal
effect: when an enemy targets you with an attack, the enemy rolls the attack twice and uses the result of your choice. the triggering enemy takes damage equal to your wisdom modifier if it misses.



threre, traded int for dex now people can say the vanara is just another elf clone...
it now gets both feats with the +1 athletics it gets from those feats it has a total of +2 athletics and +2 acrobatics, +2 stealth. the only thing the old vanara had going for it was mad skill bonuses and this one follows that tradition.
monkey business is new and improved, may trigger on any type of attack and deals a little bit of damage. now pick it appart and tell me its terrible...
i want the 4e vanara to both feel like an official new race and the old 3.5 race but there isnt much to go on and I'm afraid i cant come up with anything much because i dont know how to tell if something is fair and balanced. the damage thing was even going to be a feat i thought up but the race obviously does need more power.
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3 years ago  ::  Feb 05, 2010 - 7:25PM #170
MechaPilot
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2007
Posts: 9,372
I was looking through the PHB and noticed that the favored classes for the existing races don't always correspond to classes where both of the race's attribute bonuses are in key abilities for that class.  I found this confusing and was wondering if I could get some clarification from more experienced homebrewers about what makes a class a favored class for a given race in 4e.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad Show

Mar 4, 2012 -- 5:04PM, MechaPilot wrote:

Mar 4, 2012 -- 3:46PM, Warrant wrote:

so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.


Really?  So it goes something like this?

Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well."  Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh.  Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."


taking an argument too far Show

Apr 16, 2012 -- 9:27PM, Frostball wrote:

So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion?  Here's a scenario.  The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land.  They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges.  Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.

Part 1:  I didn't describe any of the hits.  What does he see?

Part 2:  Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up.  What does he see?



Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

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