Community

 
Dungeons & Dra.. Homebrew Campaigns Fireclave's Guide to 4e Race Mechanic Creation
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 14 of 19  •  Prev 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 ... 19 Next
Switch to Forum Live View
Sticky: Fireclave's Guide to 4e Race Mechanic Creation
4 years ago  ::  Aug 07, 2009 - 3:11AM #131
The_Silversword
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2009
Posts: 13,455
Instead of extra healing surges would it be too much to give them regeneration 5/10 at 21st level? Thoughts anyone?
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig


Off-topic and going downhill from there
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 12:10PM #132
Fireclave
Date Joined: Apr 29, 2006
Posts: 2,149

Mercaius]Right now, my question involves a simple 5-square radius light source, suppress at will, centered on the character that I'm debating.

It does free up a player's hand from torches or the like in dark areas, but that seems both mild and situational as an advantage. I added the ability to suppress the light source so the race was still viable as a stealthy character and did not penalize the player.


I think I would count that as a minor. I figure that most adventures happen in places people can see, whether due to the enviroment or the forethought of the players to bring light sources. It's use is overall situational and, as you mentioned, the major advantage is freeing up a hand in dark places. And at a 1 square radius, it doesn't even negate the need for a better lightsource for combat purposes.

Right now, my question involves a simple 5-square radius light source, suppress at will, centered on the character that I'm debating.

It does free up a player's hand from torches or the like in dark areas, but that seems both mild and situational as an advantage. I added the ability to suppress the light source so the race was still viable as a stealthy character and did not penalize the player.[/quote]
I think I would count that as a minor. I figure that most adventures happen in places people can see, whether due to the enviroment or the forethought of the players to bring light sources. It's use is overall situational and, as you mentioned, the major advantage is freeing up a hand in dark places. And at a 1 square radius, it doesn't even negate the need for a better lightsource for combat purposes.


The_Silversword]Karthon Durability: Increase Number of healing Surges by 1


Kinda weak and a bit boring. I would either attach some other secondary, more interesting, effect to Durability or at least up the bonus healing surges to 2.

Karthon Durability: Increase Number of healing Surges by 1[/quote]
Kinda weak and a bit boring. I would either attach some other secondary, more interesting, effect to Durability or at least up the bonus healing surges to 2.

The_Silversword]Knuckle spikes: Karthons have extended claw-like knuckles. Increase unarmed damage to 1d6


Very weaksause. A single die size is not much of an increase, and the attacks are still without a profinecy bonus, so even melee-oriented character wouldn't have much use for them. But as was mentioned above, "natural weapons" really should be a feat.

Knuckle spikes: Karthons have extended claw-like knuckles. Increase unarmed damage to 1d6[/quote]
Very weaksause. A single die size is not much of an increase, and the attacks are still without a profinecy bonus, so even melee-oriented character wouldn't have much use for them. But as was mentioned above, "natural weapons" really should be a feat.

The_Silversword]Racial Power:
Adaptive Defense
Encounter
Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You take damage from a specific damage type
Effect: You gain resist 5 + 1/2 your level against that damage type until the end of the encounter.

...I dont know i like the Adaptive defense being that you have to take damage before you can resist it. I guess that is kinda limiting. I dont know i may change it to a specific damage type and perhaps have racial feats to choose other resistances? Thanx again for the input. This is still very much a work-in-progress.


I'm not so well verse with monster entries, so I don't know how well the ability would work against elemental themed creatures. As is, its potentionally resistance against every elemental type, which is crazy good when it applies, even if you have to get hit first assuming the battle last more than a few rounds. However, it is useless against non-elemental users and is a rather static ability.

Just an idea, but perhaps instead of triggering a reaction when hit by a damage-keyworded attack, you instead make the power more general in nature in both trigger and effect wrote:

Racial Power:
Adaptive Defense
Encounter
Immediate Reaction
Trigger: You take damage from a specific damage type
Effect: You gain resist 5 + 1/2 your level against that damage type until the end of the encounter.

...I dont know i like the Adaptive defense being that you have to take damage before you can resist it. I guess that is kinda limiting. I dont know i may change it to a specific damage type and perhaps have racial feats to choose other resistances? Thanx again for the input. This is still very much a work-in-progress.[/quote]
I'm not so well verse with monster entries, so I don't know how well the ability would work against elemental themed creatures. As is, its potentionally resistance against every elemental type, which is crazy good when it applies, even if you have to get hit first assuming the battle last more than a few rounds. However, it is useless against non-elemental users and is a rather static ability.

Just an idea, but perhaps instead of triggering a reaction when hit by a damage-keyworded attack, you instead make the power more general in nature in both trigger and effect; for example, an immediate interupt that grants a bonus against any triggering attack. Then, make the elemental resistance a secondary effect that last for one or more rounds (instead of the whole encounter).

That would make the power more useful in general while keeping the elemental resistance theme.

The_Silversword]Instead of extra healing surges would it be too much to give them regeneration 5/10 at 21st level? Thoughts anyone?


Always-on regen? Yes, it would be too much. Compare such an ability to what Longtooth Shifters get. They not only get less regen (starts at 2, maxes at 6 at 21st), but requires them to be bloodied first, and Longtooth Shifting is their only racial ability. But even then it's a very go wrote:

Instead of extra healing surges would it be too much to give them regeneration 5/10 at 21st level? Thoughts anyone?[/quote]
Always-on regen? Yes, it would be too much. Compare such an ability to what Longtooth Shifters get. They not only get less regen (starts at 2, maxes at 6 at 21st), but requires them to be bloodied first, and Longtooth Shifting is their only racial ability. But even then it's a very good one.

Thinking about creating a race for 4e?  Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 09, 2009 - 1:33PM #133
Darkdiashi
Date Joined: Nov 14, 2008
Posts: 416

The_Silversword wrote:

Spoiler: Show

ok ive got the rough draft of my race done. what do you think? thought about changin up the skill bonus seeing as how they would get bonuses to those skills any way because of thier stat bonuses but they way i see it those skill would be what these guys are best at.

Karthons
Ability Score:
+2 Str, +2 Con
Size: Medium
Speed: 6
Vision: Low-light

Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance
Karthon Will: +1 racial bonus to Wil. Once per encounter you can reroll a failed save vs. a charm effect.
Karthon Durability: Increase Number of healing Surges by 1
Knuckle spikes: Karthons have extended claw-like knuckles. Increase unarmed damage to 1d6

Racial Power:
Adaptive Defense
Encounter
Immediate Reaction

Trigger: You take damage from a specific damage type
Effect: You gain resist 5 + 1/2 your level against that damage type until the end of the encounter.

Not sure about the vs charm thing either. I wanted to have something in there as a defense against charm but didnt just want to copy the Eladrins.
Opinions any body? is it balanced? should i trim a few things?
Special Thanx to Fireclave (great guide) and Crimson Concerto for their insights and helpful suggestions.




I say for durability either increase it to 2 healing surges, or do a balanced version of either second wind as a free action or two second winds per encounter.

Keep knuckle spikes as a feat and add something else in there. thier fluff semms pretty cool I'm sure you can come up with a more interesting or fluff-filled ability.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2009 - 4:33AM #134
The_Silversword
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2009
Posts: 13,455
Thanx for the input peoples. Yeah after lookin around on the compendium i realized the the regeneration would be too much might give them something similiar to the shifters ability or stick with bonus healing surges. like the idea of haveing 2 second winds per encounter that would do the trick too. and yeah i guess thier racial power might be a little weak i mean whats the chances of them getting hit with the same damage type twice in an encounter especially if the enemy knows ok these guys have this racial ability so use a different attack now. I was thinkin about givin them a resistince to a paticular energy type like the Tieflings, like okay these guys fought alot of Necromancers back in the day so give them resist Necrotic as the racial power and then have other resistances as feats or something.I know what i what these guys capable of, im just not sure how it fit it in with 4e mechanics. Thanx again for the input.. back to the drawing board :D
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig


Off-topic and going downhill from there
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2009 - 5:22AM #135
Darkdiashi
Date Joined: Nov 14, 2008
Posts: 416

The_Silversword wrote:

Thanx for the input peoples. Yeah after lookin around on the compendium i realized the the regeneration would be too much might give them something similiar to the shifters ability or stick with bonus healing surges. like the idea of haveing 2 second winds per encounter that would do the trick too. and yeah i guess thier racial power might be a little weak i mean whats the chances of them getting hit with the same damage type twice in an encounter especially if the enemy knows ok these guys have this racial ability so use a different attack now. I was thinkin about givin them a resistince to a paticular energy type like the Tieflings, like okay these guys fought alot of Necromancers back in the day so give them resist Necrotic as the racial power and then have other resistances as feats or something.I know what i what these guys capable of, im just not sure how it fit it in with 4e mechanics. Thanx again for the input.. back to the drawing board :D


Were they seen as more resistant to physical or mental affects of spells? what was thier defining resistance? Like "they resist all spells but thier resistnace to 'X' was thier most importnant or Iconic resistance" Depedning on the answer there are several racial abilities options and feat lines to back them up.

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2009 - 6:36AM #136
The_Silversword
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2009
Posts: 13,455

Darkdiashi wrote:

Were they seen as more resistant to physical or mental affects of spells? what was thier defining resistance? Like "they resist all spells but thier resistnace to 'X' was thier most importnant or Iconic resistance" Depedning on the answer there are several racial abilities options and feat lines to back them up.


In previous editions they just had a general magic resistance, or spell resistance as it was in 3.xe. That mechanic seems dificult to transfer to 4e. I think i should just pick a damage type and go with that. Im thinkin of Necrotic as Necromancers were a main enemy of these guys a few ages ago during this big mage war that was goin on. Im thinkin of a Force resistance too as in my mind that fits in with a "general" magic type. I still like the idea of a Varible resistance but i dont want it to be highly situational as i have it now.

I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig


Off-topic and going downhill from there
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2009 - 7:55AM #137
Darkdiashi
Date Joined: Nov 14, 2008
Posts: 416

The_Silversword wrote:

In previous editions they just had a general magic resistance, or spell resistance as it was in 3.xe. That mechanic seems dificult to transfer to 4e. I think i should just pick a damage type and go with that. Im thinkin of Necrotic as Necromancers were a main enemy of these guys a few ages ago during this big mage war that was goin on. Im thinkin of a Force resistance too as in my mind that fits in with a "general" magic type. I still like the idea of a Varible resistance but i dont want it to be highly situational as i have it now.


The reason I ask is because you can set it up this way:

As an ability give them resist 5 necrotic and resist 5 force, scaling it to 10 and 15 with the tiers. Then introduce the Racial feat:

True resistance
Choose one: pscychic, fire, cold, acid, lightning, thunder or radient.
You add resist 5 for the chosen damage type to your racial resistances. Increase to 10 at 11th, to 15 at 21st.
Special: you may take this feat more than once.


You could also try out these:
Formidable Resistances:
Increase all of your racial resistances (inculding those from True resistance) by 2


Trained Resistances
Choose one: Fear, Illusion, charm, sleep, or poison.
You get a +5 feat bonus to saving throws against your choice.
Special: You may take this feat more than once.



**If these are horribly unbalanced, anyone whom is better at judging these things then I am polease offer your input/improvments.**

Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 10, 2009 - 10:57AM #138
The_Silversword
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2009
Posts: 13,455
yeah those are some good ideas. i like the resistance 5+ 1/2 level myself like the tieflings instead of scaling by tier. but that might be a little too much with multiple resistances. thanks again for the input.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig


Off-topic and going downhill from there
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2009 - 12:45PM #139
ShadowGuard
Date Joined: Mar 21, 2006
Posts: 331
I have a few questions to bring up.

Are any of the alternate forms of vision okay for a race to have? For example Blind sight, or Tremor sense?

What about alternate forms of movement like Swim, Climb or Burrow speeds?

Would it be too powerful to give races a specific superior weapon proficiency feat instead of the normal racial proficiency too make the racial proficiencies worth while? If you did give a race one specific superior weapon proficiency, would it still be a minor ability since you can’t choose the weapon or would it become a Major ability.

I was also working on an Ooze like race and it would have this Ooze form racial power as major ability. Is this really broken?

Ooze Form
At-will, Polymorph
Minor Action, Personal
Effect: Your body turns into an ooze like form which lasts until the end of your next turn. In this form you move your full speed when squeezing and you do not grant combat advantage or provoke attacks of opportunity attacks while squeezing. In addition all your items sink into your form allowing you to squeeze into spaces as small 1 inch in height. While you are in this form you gain a +2 to defenses against opportunity attacks, but you can’t use any attack powers. You can end this form early as a minor action.
Sustain Minor: The power persists.

Also would it be too farfetched to make a Swarm race? It could have a racial power to gain the benefits of the swarm keyword temporarily.

Any feedback would be great.
Quick Reply
Cancel
4 years ago  ::  Aug 11, 2009 - 3:09PM #140
Crimson_Concerto
Date Joined: Aug 28, 2005
Posts: 9,999

ShadowGuard wrote:

Are any of the alternate forms of vision okay for a race to have? For example Blind sight, or Tremor sense?


Both are likely inappropriate on a PC race. If your race can conceptually function without them, then it's best you go with that, and if your race can't conceptually function without them, then it's probably not conceptually appropriate as a PC race anyways. You might be able to get away with including it as an encounter racial powers, granting the special vision until the end of your next turn or something like that, but even then, the range should definitely be very limited.

What about alternate forms of movement like Swim, Climb or Burrow speeds?


Climb and Burrow can be just as bad as fly in many scenarios, so they're to be avoided unless, again, they're being granted only for one move via an encounter racial power. You might even have further problems with Burrow because of how that interacts with dungeon walls, floors, and ceilings. As for a Swim speed, I really can't think of how it could be abused, but it's still difficult to balance because the usefulness of a swim speed is heavily based on campaign style. There will be campaigns when you never make use of that swim speed so you'll be underpowered and campaigns were having a swim speed makes them overpowered. It's really best just to avoid it...

Would it be too powerful to give races a specific superior weapon proficiency feat instead of the normal racial proficiency too make the racial proficiencies worth while?


No, it wouldn't be overpowered, but you still shouldn't do it. That sort of feature is exactly like the Half-Orc Swift Charge; it's awesome for some classes and completely useless to most others, and that's bad design. Even normal racial weapon proficiencies as they are now are not a very well designed idea, but at least now they're mostly equally useless to everybody.

I was also working on an Ooze like race and it would have this Ooze form racial power as major ability. Is this really broken?

Ooze Form
At-will, Polymorph
Minor Action, Personal
Effect: Your body turns into an ooze like form which lasts until the end of your next turn. In this form you move your full speed when squeezing and you do not grant combat advantage or provoke attacks of opportunity attacks while squeezing. In addition all your items sink into your form allowing you to squeeze into spaces as small 1 inch in height. While you are in this form you gain a +2 to defenses against opportunity attacks, but you can’t use any attack powers. You can end this form early as a minor action.
Sustain Minor: The power persists.


My only question is why is this a racial power? It sounds to me like you could easily pull off half of these benefits being just plain old racial features that are always active:

Gelatinous Contortion: When you take a move action to squeeze, you can move up to your speed instead of only up to half your speed. You do not grant combat advantage when you squeeze.

And then turn the rest into a better racial encounter power:

Oozing Shift
Encounter
Move Action Personal
Effect:
You can shift up to your speed. During this movement, you ignore difficult terrain, you can move through enemy squares, and all of your items sink into your form such that you can compress your body enough to squeeze through a 1-inch-wide crack, so cracks and other openings that are more than 1 inch wide do not slow you down at all. If you do not end this movement in a square that you could occupy, then you return to the most recent square you moved though that you could occupy.


Putting all of that into an at-will polymorph power is just clumsy and mechanically confusing, and being able to move through spaces so small at-will can prove problematic to the point where your DM will eventually just decide the ne needs to make it useless and from then on all cracks will be half an inch wide. In fact, even being able to do it once per encounter could theoretically be problematic. Remember all the commotion way back at the beginning of 4E when people realize that a normal prison could not hold an Eladrin? Of course, we all later found out that all one needs to prevent that is a blindfold, so that ended okay, but this is a little different...

Also would it be too farfetched to make a Swarm race? It could have a racial power to gain the benefits of the swarm keyword temporarily.


A race that's always a swarm would be overpowered. That's half damage from all melee and ranged attacks, immunity to forced movement due to melee and ranged attacks, never provoke opportunity attack for moving through enemy squares, and of course you can always move through spaces about an inch wide...

Even in the form of an encounter racial power, I don't see how you could pull this off very well. At best, I could see the racial power functioning... almost exactly the same as the ooze power above, actually...



And as a general response to everything you've said... It's really just best if you don't. :P
Seriously, your homebrew races will be cooler if you just make them cool yourself and don't try to rely on mechanical gimmicks like these to make them cool for you. I'm not saying that relying on gimmicks to make your race cool is what you're doing; I'm just saying that a lot of people do that, and this is sort of what it looks like...

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM

Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask?
"If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB
"If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave
"WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm
"Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha

Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further.

Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 14 of 19  •  Prev 1 ... 12 13 14 15 16 ... 19 Next
Jump Menu:
 
Dungeons & Dra.. Homebrew Campaigns Fireclave's Guide to 4e Race Mechanic Creation
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing