I'm not so sure about the full bonus, maybe just half the bonus. That Scale Specialization feat drops it's move penalty, so a Baneblade in flat +6 scale (around 24th level I think) would have a 12 square move. That seems a little too much, but a 9 square move for a 1/2 bonus (rounded up) wouldn't be so bad (10 and 8 for elves and dwarves, respectively).
As for Dark Armory powers, I'd suggest we format them thusly.
Power Name Baneblade # Attack/Utility Power Flavor Text Usage, Source - Keywords Action, Attack Type Range Target Attack Hit: Special: If you are wearing Chainmail, the target is...
Also, if we're going to have Dark Armory powers that key all the way up to Plate, shouldn't we offer at least Scale Proficiency? Offering Plate is unprecedented, but it might serve our purpose. It would be cruel to offer the fighter Spear powers without proficiency in Spears.
Well let me say first is that I am glad to have you on board Johnathan to help tone down my sometimes outlandish ideas. I agree with both the formatting of Armor powers and reducing the bonus to speed to half its enchantment level.
Wow this is a lot to go over so I will go piece by piece.
Johnathan_Vagabond wrote:
Backlash looks fine. A standard action for a no attack 1d6+Cha+8 (remember, the baneblade's backlash hex does +3) might still be a little strong. It might be better to make it a flat out 1d6+Cha, instead of giving it Backlash Hex damage, then give it it's leveling strength. Or 1d8+Cha, to make it competitive. Also, to make it easier to read, I'd suggest the following word change. "When you expend this power, you deal 1d8 necrotic damage before the Vulnerability expires".
Also, if the whole class is called the Baneblade, I don't think it's one of its sub-builds should share the same name. Maybe "Blackblade, Deathblade, Ghostblade, Soulblade, Nightblade, Shadowblade, Bloodblade, Netherblade, or Graveblade."
I think that it would be okay to keep the damage as is, but disallow the part where it deals damage with the vulnerability included.
As for the name ordeal, I was thinking that the Baneblade is the name of the path and a better name would be the name for the class, but I have unfortunately not thought up a name worthy enough to encapsulate all that this class could be. So for now the Baneblade is just a place holder for the future class name.
Backlash Hex: We need to add either Until the Beginning of your next turn or Until the End of your next turn.
Curse of Vulnerability: "When you expend this power, the target takes a penalty to saving throws against ongoing damage equal to half your Cha modifier (save -3 ends). Only one creature may be affected by your expended Curse of Vulnerability at a time."
These are the reasons behind the CoV changes. First, giving it to any saving throw is to reminicsent of the Orbizard, which is a controller. Second, the full Cha mod penalty to saves could be silly, like the orbizard, but half ought to do the trick. I think a -3 to save is better than a -Cha to save ends, which could very well make it impossible to save against either the CoV or the Ongoing damage (making it a two-hit whammy). Finally, I don't think the Baneblade ought to try and curse the whole battlefield, one minor-standard action at a time.
I agree with the Backlash Hex fix but I would like to discuss the CoV thing. I would agree with the fix except for the first part. If anything I see the Hexblade as the build with the strongest Controller undertones. The Hexblades job is to pick one foe and control them until it dies and then moves on to a new foe. So in that line I would agree it should be one target at a time, and reducing it to half be the best decision. I think that with a reduced penalty, single target and standard action to expend it, balances out enough to allow for the penalty to be on all saving throws.
Backlash Hex looks fine. But the CoV is far too strong. I'd suggest, even at the cost of a standard action, it last until the end of your next turn. This is also very controllerish. Perhaps, being as the bladethief is sneaky (right?) it could read "The first time the target deals damage before the end of your next turn, it takes 5/10/15 psychic damage." That'll give you a big hit, but not too big. To narrow it down even more, it could take the damage if it strikes at you.
I agree that with toning it down to what you suggested. I agree with the fact that this power is very controllerish. I think that I like this because it’s about dice rolls and luck. I see the Bladethief as a gambler of a path mixing in ample amounts of luck and fate into its shadowy, sneaky style of fighting. If the power is really that bad then I would not mind changing it to something like you suggested. Edit: Another idea could be a penalty to Attack rolls equal to half your Int mod until the end of your next turn.
The Backlash Hex looks pretty good. For the CoV I'd suggest this:
"When you expend this power, the target takes on-going 5 poison damage (save ends)."
An overarching suggestion is this. Instead of limiting the Backlash Hex to one type of damage, why not instead give them bonuses to that specific type of damage? Change "This power can only deal X damage" to "When this power deals X damage". That way they're still going to use that type exclusively, but they're not hogtied when they meet a creature with that resistance.
For the Mournblade CoV issue: Is the on-going 5 poison damage enough? To clarify does this change include the Int damage to adjacent creatures? If it’s just the on going damage by itself I worry that it would be to low of damage and also it doesn’t have any secondary stat bonus to reward players with a high Int. If the change is both on-going and Int damage then I would agree with it.
For the overarching suggestion I would put in a plus +1 to attack rolls with the damage we see that path using. Having damage bonuses is really the Baneblade shtick, so a bonus to attack seems okay to me.
Kay I have put in the all the edits for this post in for now.
Baneblade is a Necrotic damage dealer Bladethief is a Psychic damage dealer Mournblade is a poison damage dealer Hexblade is a curser and debuffer
Each class should have 'its at will', and there should be maybe 2 or 3 non-specific at-wills.
Baneblade At-Will 1[w]+Str+Int Necrotic Damage.
Hexblade At-Will 1d6+Int damage and another 1d6+int if they end their turn adjacent to the Hexblade.
Bladethief At-Will 1d6+Cha Psychic damage and concealement against the target until the beginning of your next turn.
Mournblade At-Will 1[w]+Str Poison damage and On-Going 5 poison damage on a crit.
Just some thoughts without any other stuff.
Defiantly some good thoughts and will keep them in mind when making the at-will powers. I agree on doing 4 “path” powers, and I will make two Armor powers and one general power. One armor power would focus on Heavy and one on Light and later levels could have specific armor riders.
What if everytime the rolled maximum damage (weapon or power) against their 'special target', they could treat it as a crit?
I have some questions. Are you referring to the Baneblade Path or the Class in general? What would making it count as a crit give to the player beyond the extra damage. Also if this is referring to the Baneblade Path would that be for and CoV, and if so would that be the only thing the CoV expended would grant?
I have some questions. Are you referring to the Baneblade Path or the Class in general? What would making it count as a crit give to the player beyond the extra damage. Also if this is referring to the Baneblade Path would that be for and CoV, and if so would that be the only thing the CoV expended would grant?
Also do the changes I have made look alright?
My thought is this, there are dozens of weapon properties and Paragon Path features that key off of you critting. (I've given this more thought since I posted). What if it read "Whenever you roll the maximum amount on one of your damage dice after a hit, you treat that attack as a critical hit for the purpose of non-damage dice bonuses." So, one sorcerer paragon path (if I recall) deals on-going 10 lightning damage on a crit (save ends). So, if a multiclassed Baneblade rolls 3d6 and gets 6, 4, 1 they also deal the extra 10 on-going damage, but they don't get the bonus damage dice from their implement's enhancement (nor do they deal "max damage").
Also, I'm talking about the class. I hadn't meant for it to be used with the CoV, but I suppose it could, I don't think it would hurt anything.
When I was thinking up the Blackguard, I thought of a couple strikery names for a Striker with a 'Shadow/death' power source. Harvester and Reaper where my two thoughts off the bat.
Also, you accidentaly put the Scale proficiency in the 'important stats' section. I think the changes look pretty good. As for the Mournblade, how about this. They take on-going 5+Int poison damage with a -Int penalty to save. And or either-or.
To give the bladethief some dice rolling power, how about allowing them to roll 1d6, and applying that penalty to the target's attack (save-ends). It's not necessarily rewarding high Int, but at least one path has to allow for non-secondary heavy users.
My thought is this, there are dozens of weapon properties and Paragon Path features that key off of you critting. (I've given this more thought since I posted). What if it read "Whenever you roll the maximum amount on one of your damage dice after a hit, you treat that attack as a critical hit for the purpose of non-damage dice bonuses." So, one sorcerer paragon path (if I recall) deals on-going 10 lightning damage on a crit (save ends). So, if a multiclassed Baneblade rolls 3d6 and gets 6, 4, 1 they also deal the extra 10 on-going damage, but they don't get the bonus damage dice from their implement's enhancement (nor do they deal "max damage").
Also, I'm talking about the class. I hadn't meant for it to be used with the CoV, but I suppose it could, I don't think it would hurt anything.
When I was thinking up the Blackguard, I thought of a couple strikery names for a Striker with a 'Shadow/death' power source. Harvester and Reaper where my two thoughts off the bat.
I like this idea for as a class features in general, but the question what makes the Class deserve this feature. We already have four features right now, and I am not sure if it warrants another one.
Yes I agree that the class could use a new temporary name for the time being to avoid confusion. I think the class name Reaver will work for now.
Also, you accidentaly put the Scale proficiency in the 'important stats' section. I think the changes look pretty good. As for the Mournblade, how about this. They take on-going 5+Int poison damage with a -Int penalty to save. And or either-or.
Oops thanks for catching the Scale goof up. I could work with the ongoing to be 5 +Int and that would be it.
To give the bladethief some dice rolling power, how about allowing them to roll 1d6, and applying that penalty to the target's attack (save-ends). It's not necessarily rewarding high Int, but at least one path has to allow for non-secondary heavy users
Okay. To be honest I would agree with having the Bladethief not totally dependent on secondary score like the others, if anything that would leave them open to put points into Dex to make sneakier characters.
Well, Vagabond already covered the Path At-Wills, and I can't really think of any fluff for them. So, you wanted a Light Armour, Heavy Armour, and General At-Will, eh? Alright, any of these plausible? An attack that's come to mind almost since this class popped into my head is one that leaves a wound festering with disease or writhing with hungry maggots, but I think that's basically Vagabond's suggested Mournblade power.
Biting Curses Baneful hexes woven into your armour spring to life, a thousand tiny mouths snapping and rending at flesh. *I have no real reason, but I figure this would be the Heavy Armour power. Either Melee, Close Burst or Close Blast, but definately dealing either Poison, Necrotic or Untyped damage.
Shadow Slash Darkness veils your enemy's eyes and dulls their senses, clearing only when the pain of your strike registers. When they can see again, you have moved elsewhere. *Definately the Light Armour power. I'm thinking that this would be a Weapon damage attack, with the added effect you can Shift after resolving the attack.
Thirsty Blade As you plunge your blade into living flesh, it sucks the vital fluids that flow forth from the death blow, enfusing you with fresh strength. *This might be too powerful for an At-Will. I was basically thinking that it's a Weapon damage attack, and if this attack drops a foe, you gain either a small amount of hit points or a slightly larger (but still small) amount of temporary hit points. Say, 3 of the former, 5 of the latter?
Well, Vagabond already covered the Path At-Wills, and I can't really think of any fluff for them. So, you wanted a Light Armour, Heavy Armour, and General At-Will, eh? Alright, any of these plausible? An attack that's come to mind almost since this class popped into my head is one that leaves a wound festering with disease or writhing with hungry maggots, but I think that's basically Vagabond's suggested Mournblade power.
Biting Curses Baneful hexes woven into your armour spring to life, a thousand tiny mouths snapping and rending at flesh. *I have no real reason, but I figure this would be the Heavy Armour power. Either Melee, Close Burst or Close Blast, but definately dealing either Poison, Necrotic or Untyped damage.
Shadow Slash Darkness veils your enemy's eyes and dulls their senses, clearing only when the pain of your strike registers. When they can see again, you have moved elsewhere. *Definately the Light Armour power. I'm thinking that this would be a Weapon damage attack, with the added effect you can Shift after resolving the attack.
Thirsty Blade As you plunge your blade into living flesh, it sucks the vital fluids that flow forth from the death blow, enfusing you with fresh strength. *This might be too powerful for an At-Will. I was basically thinking that it's a Weapon damage attack, and if this attack drops a foe, you gain either a small amount of hit points or a slightly larger (but still small) amount of temporary hit points. Say, 3 of the former, 5 of the latter?
I like the Thirsty Blade as a Baneblade At-will actually. The warden has an at-will that grants temp hp, so I don’t think balance will be an issue.
Also I would like to switch Shadow slash with the Blade thief power that Johnathan came up with. I see the armor producing a shadow to make concealment while the Bladethief can cast an illusion to be in one place and then another.
For the most part Armor powers should be like implement power since armors don’t have a set base damage that they can deal out, so the dice has to written in the powers.
Edit: Now that I think about it the Hexblade at-will looks like a good way to make the Biting Curses power.
