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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:24PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2005
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I do like the fact you left out the 4 count em 4 examples in this realm that contradict your premise, and last I looked, I'm not playing in the Norse realms am I??? Maybe you should read the little comment on RAW and the hypocrisy that follows it, you might see how silly you sound. If you don't like my ideas, don't join us on Tuesday nights NP. Other then that I have a right to my opinion.
::Sigh:: You're either missing my point or deliberately ignoring it. D&D is a game that is all about cribbing fantasy and mythological tropes from anything and everything. This is a simple truth. The idea of a craftsman who is so good at his or her work that they can make "special" things that go beyond the handicraft of mere mortals is an old, old trope- Older than Dirt, as a point of fact. Yes, the Dwarves and Elves and Giants from Norsedom (which rather directly lead to the Dwarves and Elves and Giants that we all know and love in D&D, incidentally). It shows up in Greek myth- Daedalus made a number of these, and isn't described as remotely magical, himself. It shows up, extensively, in Tolkien. As I mentioned, Harry Potter cribs obvious sources for this. Masamune and Muramasa had myriad myths about their weapons. And, yes, even in your precious Realms: note that the first page I linked above was to Icewind Dale, a rather well-received video game that uses 2nd-edition rules, and features a non-spellcasting dwarf smith (as all dwarves were non-magical back then, as you'll recall) who crafts a magic weapon out of ice. I could keep on going, this is a very very old conceit, but to be frank, the last edition or two has gotten people caught up in an extremely narrow view of what magic is and how it works.
From Warweavers 10 Commandments of Optimization
Except I was commented one one's willingness to step out of the standard DM's role and go against the written rules to shut down an abuse. I'm not saying RAW is sacrosanct, only that it carries weight to DM adjudication, and that's why it's worthwhile to limit abuse potential in the rules. None of what you quoted really applies to that discussion.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:28PM
#32
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Everybody can make magic items for profit, just like everybody could theoretically pickup any other trade. The point is, that nothing ever should be more profitable than adventuring. And that's the point to it really.
If you ever have reason to say 'I'm going to be lord of the city / enchanting items / picking pockets at the market for the next three years until I have enough money to afford a +5 something' the economy has gone wrong for your game and your DM will probably soon devise a way to strip you from office so you don't get freebies anymore.
As has been said, if within the time from level 20 to level 21 you mysteriously happen not to find any treasure in your adventures but at the same time earn approximately the same amount in taxes / shop revenues, that'd be perfectly fine if it suits your group's style of play. However trying to milk the world economy for free money is essentially cheating and the rules are written in a way to make it easy for DMs to say 'It doesn't work' so they don't end up arguing with their players about economy theory in DnD.
If your DM feels that you are to be rewarded for the strong history of your character, that's probably fine and he might even give you as much as a 50% boost to monetary income it probably wouldn't break the game until you say 'Let's skip a few years and continue play when I can't lift my coffers any more' (which takes a while due to the new AD currency).
As far as creating items as a caster domain goes, Yrogerg made a few good points (though he was a bit rude about it). I always deeply resented the old way of 'You don't have a wizard, then you're screwed in situation X' (where wizard is largely interchangable with other classes depending on situation and level of play). A friend of mine was kind of upset that rogues didn't have exclusive use of Thievery but it makes just as much sense as just needing any leader to heal instead of specifically requiring a cleric. Mind you that casters are still king as it comes to enchanting items. A figher or barbarian would probably need two feats to do it (skill training Arcana or Religion and Ritual Caster), which isn't a cost to disregard as it means just about as much investment as learning some basic combat spellcasting.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:39PM
#33
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And as I said before to your last post, I agree. It's when the whole RAW stuff gets cited that sends knee jerk reactions. My DM hasn't said one way or another yet. I would be fine if he says you get 5K gp for being the head of the city, because the reason I established the city wasn't for money. I was throwing out a formula that I found on this forum and wanted to hear what others said. In Birthright, my domain according to my skill checks would net me 2.12 million gp/year. That is a realm with the economy built in. I don't expect that, but would like to know how others come up with the "you get nothing" premise as there certainly is no formula for that. As for the casting of the item, there is only 1 prerequisite for making an item, and that is "Enchant Magic Item" and then you don't even need other spells to do that. Enchant Magic Item
Magic drawn from the warp and weft of the universe infuses
the item you hold in your hands.
Level: 4
Category: Creation
Time: 1 hour
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: Special
Market Price: 175 gp
Key Skill: Arcana (no check)
You touch a normal item and turn it into a magic item of
your level or lower. The ritual’s component cost is equal to
the price of the magic item you create.
You can also use this ritual to resize magic armor (for
example, shrink a fire giant’s magic armor to fit a halfling).
There is no component cost for this use.
So as a poster added earlier, you don't need any magical ability to infuse the item, or the specific property, or even make an arcana check.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:40PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2005
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Hey thanks you made my point for me. Bruennor Battlehammer had,
1) money for adventuring
2) The ability to make the items he wanted
3) Ran a city and wasn't restricted in his abilities to leave if he wanted to
4) Charged for profit the items that Mithril Hall made and mined
I apologize, you just helped me immensely
Didn't he make Aegis-Fang while in service to the previous king? That's what it says here, at least. Oops.
Note also that being a 2e Dwarf Fighter, he would be completely non-magical, in every sense of the word. Funny how that managed to work out okay for him, item crafting-wise. I would think that being made of especially magically inert dwarf-fighter-stuff would be one of those insurmountable hurdles to personally crafting a magic item, if we're going to make that argument at all.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:44PM
#35
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Didn't he make Aegis-Fang while in service to the previous king? That's what it says here, at least. Oops.
Note also that being a 2e Dwarf Fighter, he would be completely non-magical, in every sense of the word. Funny how that managed to work out okay for him, item crafting-wise. I would think that being made of especially magically inert dwarf-fighter-stuff would be one of those insurmountable hurdles to personally crafting a magic item, if we're going to make that argument at all.
lol, the gods infused the hammer, there are no gods in 4E that grants spells anymore, now we draw from the astral sea. And as the leader of Mithril Hall, he had CLERICS and WIZARDS to imbue the items. Funny how that worked eh? You still haven't addressed the 4 examples I cited, are you going to only speak to the points that make you look like you're right?
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:46PM
#36
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Didn't he make Aegis-Fang while in service to the previous king? That's what it says here, at least. Oops.
Note also that being a 2e Dwarf Fighter, he would be completely non-magical, in every sense of the word. Funny how that managed to work out okay for him, item crafting-wise. I would think that being made of especially magically inert dwarf-fighter-stuff would be one of those insurmountable hurdles to personally crafting a magic item, if we're going to make that argument at all.
lol oops The HE they are referring to was Wulfgar. Have you read the books???
Aegis-fang (derived from the mythical shield Aegis) is the weapon of Wulfgar, son of Beornegar of the Elk tribe. It was forged for him by his adoptive father Bruenor Battlehammer while he was in servitude to the dwarf king.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:46PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2005
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lol, the gods infused the hammer, there are no godfs in 4E that grants spells anymore, now we draw from the astral sea. And as the leader of Mithril Hall, he had CLERICS and WIZARDS to imbue the items. Funny how that worked eh? Yous till haven't addressed the 4 examples I cited, are you going to only speak to the points that make you look like you're right?
This was before he was the leader of Mithril Hall. That happened after the events of Icewind Dale, and Wulfgar already had Aegis-Fang by then. And Bruenor is no cleric, so who enchanted the hammer?
At any rate, my first reference was to the Icewind Dale video game, which does happen to feature a non-magical dwarf that makes a magic weapon out of special ice.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:48PM
#38
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It's 1 o'clock AM where I am, I'll continue this riveting discussion after you read the books and then you can cite to me all you want about Wulfgar and the dwarven king.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:48PM
#39
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This was before he was the leader of Mithril Hall. That happened after the events of Icewind Dale, and Wulfgar already had Aegis-Fang by then. And Bruenor is no cleric, so who enchanted the hammer?
lol, the gods infused the hammer,
try and keep up
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4 years ago ::
Jun 27, 2009 - 9:50PM
#40
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The Icewind Dale Trilogy is a trilogy written by R.A. Salvatore, a SciFi and fantasy author. The events depicted in the trilogy follow the events depicted in The Dark Elf Trilogy, although it was written beforehand. It then continues from the Halfling's Gem onto the next series, Legacy of the Drow. It contains three books: The Crystal Shard, Streams of Silver, and The Halfling's Gem. The trilogy tells the tale of the legendary drow, or dark elf, Drizzt Do'Urden, the mighty barbarian warrior, Wulfgar, the tricky halfling Regis, a dwarf king, Bruenor, and Bruenor's adopted daughter Catti-brie. The first of Salvatore's Forgotten Realms series, it describes the events that created some of the best-known characters in Forgotten Realms. The final book of this series The Halfling's Gem appeared in the New York Times Best seller list. [1]
just incase you were confused
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