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4 years ago  ::  Feb 15, 2009 - 11:31AM #31
Doomsought
Date Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 1,590
Tools of the Trade one: Weapons
Weapons are the life of the adventurer, or rather the death of any that would take his. D20 Brutal covers all tech-levels, simpler weapons require a few structural and mechanical craft checks, while more advanced ones require chemical and electrical craft checks and even knowledge technology checks.

Tech-level:the tech-level of a society is measured by the maximum knowledge: technology rank a member may ever have.

Weapons and size
The ease of how a weapon may be used depends on the size of the weapon and the size of the arm using it. A weapon is two handed if it is one size larger than the arms wielding it. A weapon the same size as the arm is one handed and a weapon one size smaller is also one handed and may benefit from weapon finesse.

format(keyword) Show

Description
Size category; damage; critical; Properties
Creation checks; materials
Buy sell cost

(if you wish to submit a weapon for me, please use the above format.)

Daggers
Commmon Dagger Show

A short blade, it may not have a potent bite, but it fits well between ribs.
Dim(-3); 1d4 piercing; 20X2
Mechanical: DC 12 1/2; Structural: DC 12 1/2; metal or stone
price

Folding Knife Show

a retractable blade requires no sheath
Dim(-3); 1d4 piercing; 20X2; +2 to hide on person
Mechanical: DC 15 2/3; Structural: DC 12 1/2; steal, wood metal or plastic for grip
price

Punching Dagger Show

The hilt fits over the fist like brass knuckles, where the blade is attached.
Dim(-3); 1d4; 20X2; +4 to resist disarm checks
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Blade Catcher Show

The blade of this weapon has a metal bar paralleling it, to catch and remove an opponent's blade.
Dim(-3); 1d4 slashing; 20X2; this weapon may be used without penalty with dagger proficiency, but it's own exotic weapon proficiency provides full benefit of its use.
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Kukri Show

A Curved Knife with a myriad of uses.
Dim(-3); 1d4 slashing; 18-20X2
Mechanical: DC 16 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Sai(Blade Catcher) Show

The saiis a type of three pronged blade catcher with a stabbing point.
Dim(-3); 1d4 piercing; 20X2; A Sai is treated as a blade catcher for feats.
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal
price

Shuriken Show

A small throwing dagger, which works best use as such.
Dim(-3); 1d2 slashing; when thrown: 5'; 1d4 piercing; 20X2;
Mechanical: DC 10 1/2; Structural: DC 15 1/2; steal; a mold may be used to skip craft checks.
price


Swords
Gladius (Short sword) Show

A short sword with a stabbing point.
Tiny(-2); 1d6 piercing; 19-20X2
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 13 2/3; steal
price

Long sword Show

A long, sharpened, metal stick.
Tiny(-2); 1d8 slashing; 19-20X2
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Bastard Sword Show

A really big sword.
Small(-1); 1d10 slashing; 19-20X2
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal
price

Claymore (greatsword) Show

Yes, they do indeed make a bigger sword.
Small(-1); 2d6 slashing; 19-20X2
Mechanical: DC 14 1/2; Structural: DC 18 2/3; steal
price

Cutlass Show

As light blade, for your swash buckling needs.
Tiny(-2); 1d6 pircing; 19-20X2; +2 to resist disarm
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 13 2/3; steal
price

Scimitar Show

A strung blade with a point that can get under armor.
Tiny(-2); 2d4 piercing; 19-20X2
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Falcion Show

A primitive version of the scimitar.
Tiny(-2); 1d6 slashing; 18-20X2
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 14 2/3; steal
price

Macuahuitl(sword) Show

The Macuahuitl
Tiny(-2); 1d6 slashing; 19-20/X2; deals 2d4 against targets without hardness
Craft: Mechanical DC 15, 1/2; Craft: structural DC 15, 2/3; Wood, Obsidian
price


Axes and Picks
Battleaxe Show

This axe is meant for someones head.
Tiny(-2); 1d8 Slashing; 20X3
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 14 2/3; steal
price

Great Axe Show

A big axe to take care of big heads.
Small(-1); 1d12 slashing; 20X3
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal
price

Dwarven War Axe Show

Small(-1); 1d10 slashing; 20X3
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Light pick Show

A mining instrament that can do some nasty to people too.
Dim(-3); 1d4 piercing; 20X4
19-20/X2
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 14 2/3; steal
price

Heavy Pick Show

A instrument of breaking rock and people.
Tiney(-2); 1d6 piercing; 20X4
19-20/X2
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Dire Pick Show

A mobile hole in the head.
Small(-1); 1d8 piercing; 20X4
19-20/X2
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal
price

Warpick Show

This one is for people.
Small(-1); 1d6 piercing; 19-20X4
19-20/X2
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price

Pick Axe Show

A pick on one end an axe on the other.
Tiney(-2); 1d6 piercing; 20X4 OR 1d8 Slashing; 20X3
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal
price


Clubs and Maces
Common Stick Show

small (-1)1d4 bludgeoning; 20 X2 and it breaks
Any stick off the ground, or piece of bar furniture will do.

Sap Show

Tiney (-2) 2d4 concussive/subdual; 20 X2
Mechanical: DC 15 2/4; leather rocks/marbles
price

Light Flail Show

small (-2) 1d8 bludgeoning; 20X2
Mechanical: DC 15: 2/3; structural: DC 15 1/2; Iron or steal
price

Heavy Flail Show

medium (+0) 1d10 Bludgeoning; 19-20 X 2
Mechanical: DC 15: 3/4; structural: DC 15 1/2; Iron or steal
price

War hammer Show

small (-1) ad8 bludgeoning; 20 X3
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3
price

Smith's Hammer(light Hammer) Show

Dim(-3); 1d4 bludgeoning; 20
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 14 1/2; steal
price

Greatclub Show

A really big stick
Medium (+0) 1d10 Bludgeoning; 20 X2

Sledge Hammer(Maul) Show

Medium(+0) 1d10 Budgeoning; 20 X3
Mechanical: DC 13 1/2; Structural: DC 14 2/3; steal
price


Pole Arms
Awl Pike Show

Wiki-entry
Medium(+0) 1d8 Piercing; 20 X3; 15' reach
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Axe, Lochaber Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 1d10 Slashing; 20X3; 10' reach -weapon spec: dismount counter.
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Bardiche Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 1d10 slashing; 20X3
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Fauchard Show

Wiki-entry
Medium(+0) 1d8 Slashing; 20X3; 10' reach
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 15 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Glaive Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 1d10 Slashing; 20X3; 10' reach
Mechanical: DC 15 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Halberd Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 1d10 Slashing or piercing; 20X3; 10' reach
Mechanical: DC 16 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Longspear Show

Medium (+0) 1d8 piercing; 20X3; 10' reach
Mechanical: DC 14 1/2; Structural: DC 14 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Naginata Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 1d10 Slashing; 20X3; 10' reach
Mechanical: DC 16 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Partisan Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 2d4 Piercing or Slashing; 20X3; 10' reach
Mechanical: DC 16 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Pilum Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 1d8 Piercing; 10' reach- may be thrown as a javelin.
Mechanical: DC 16 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Quarterstaff Show

A long hardwood shaft with metal caps.
Medium (+0) 1d6 Bludgeoning; 20X2
Structural: DC 15 1/2;wood
price

Ranseur Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 2d4 Piercing; 20X3; 10' reach -improved disarm (weopon spec.)
Mechanical: DC 16 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price

Sasumata Show

Wiki-entry
Medium (+0) 1d8 Bludgioning; 20X3; 10' reach -subdual...
Mechanical: DC 16 1/2; Structural: DC 16 2/3; steal, pole/wood
price


Bows and Crossbows
Heavy Crossbow
Light Crossbow
Grappling Crossbow
Repeating Crossbow
Longbow
Aquatic Longbow
Composite bow
Composite longbow
Short Bow

Muzzle loaders

Exotic classical weapons

Pistols

Derringers
(Derringers may be used without penalty with Pistol Proficiency)
Targeting Riffles

Assault Riffles

Shotguns and exotic modern weapons

Siege weapons

Grenades

Missiles and Rockets

This will take awhile
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 8:15AM #32
bartleby42
Date Joined: Mar 30, 2005
Posts: 227
Okay I win at your system. I play anyone with a crossbow.

Ranged Targeting Class: 10+size+deflection+cover


So it's easier to hit things via ranged attack, and since called shots to the head are only slightly harder than normal attacks, I'll shoot everyone in the head and profit.

/game

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 9:02AM #33
elondir
Date Joined: May 1, 2006
Posts: 854
Unless the other side wins initiative and does that to your character first. Kind of like in real life where it's very easy to die.
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 12:46PM #34
Rustmonster
Date Joined: Mar 4, 2007
Posts: 3,874

bartleby42 wrote:

Okay I win at your system. I play anyone with a crossbow.


So it's easier to hit things via ranged attack, and since called shots to the head are only slightly harder than normal attacks, I'll shoot everyone in the head and profit.

/game


elondir wrote:

Unless the other side wins initiative and does that to your character first. Kind of like in real life where it's very easy to die.


So should we rename the system "D20 Headshot"? :P

EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS.

Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 16, 2009 - 3:16PM #35
Doomsought
Date Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 1,590
Which is why helmets are a very good idea, as well as ranks in hide. Buffs are all the more important.
Cover is for the smart, and Range increments will be... small.
Say 5' for hand crossbow, 10' for standard crossbows and bows, 15' for longbow.

But when guns come around, you're pretty much just left with hide checks and cover. (Derringers are 5', 15' for pistols, more for riffles)
I'm not sure I I should give muzzle loaders a base range increment of 10' or just 5'.

(also just added some Chi Strike feats)
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2009 - 4:48PM #36
Doomsought
Date Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 1,590
Updates all this week I think, I've done most of the feats I've put up and some weapons. I added some races for Scifi settings; I still need to put up much more weapons before I can play test and work on proficiencies though.

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2009 - 6:42PM #37
bartleby42
Date Joined: Mar 30, 2005
Posts: 227
While you have obviously put forth a lot of effort into this, you still have the flaw all systems with called shots have. Either they are too easy, and everyone goes for the head all of the time, or they are too hard and no-one ever uses them.

Now you pushing on the too easy side of things, and even with a short range increment, the game will quickly devolve into, win initiative, head shot, ???, profit.

If you push to make them harder, i.e. comically high range penalties or huge bonuses based off of helms, etc, you might as well of never made the rules, because noone will ever use them.

It's a big problem that there isn't really a solution for. I keep hoping to come up with/find an elegant solution, but they don't appear to exist for this problem.
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 20, 2009 - 8:27PM #38
Doomsought
Date Joined: Mar 28, 2008
Posts: 1,590
I've planned armor to only give bonuses to what its covered from the beginning. If you want to protect your head, get a helm, your torso, get a breastplate.
But it actually works out elegantly in layers:
First you can hide and get the surprise round, good planning and smart use of skills pays off. I think I might do away with the initiative Roll anyway.
Second is terrain, concealment and cover; when I get to it concealment will give a static bonus to targeting class rather than miss chance, but still more tactics and clever skill use keeps you alive.
Third you can up your targeting class with magic and feats.
Fourth, while in melee, you can parry or even counter.
Fifth you have armor granting hardness and softening which will drop the blow by much.
Sixth your HP is based of either your Constitution or Strength Score, meaning any body-part's HP can range from 10 to 20.

It will take only a few hits to kill some one, but a few rounds is all you need in combat anyways. The rouge can one hit someone with his sneak attack. But you never send snipers against players before epic anyways.

Six layers of defense, where in other editions you have only one or two.
This will make player survivability go up, while making quick kills easier for the players as well.

And parries. I must remind you, are the basis for truly epic battles. The fighter has counters which he can exchange back and forth until some one gets a strait miss or wants to save his opportunities for later. Now counter spells are more reactive (and possible), its a simple roll of and I may add some more feats to act like a fighter's counter.
Psions will have their own thing when I get to them.

Sorry for the wall of text.
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4 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2009 - 6:46AM #39
bartleby42
Date Joined: Mar 30, 2005
Posts: 227
Once more I don't mean to rip your system to shreds, but your layers of defense aren't really all they are cracked up to be.

Doomsought wrote:

But it actually works out elegantly in layers:
First you can hide and get the surprise round, good planning and smart use of skills pays off. I think I might do away with the initiative Roll anyway.


It is never a good idea to make survival in a system to matter entirely on a skill check. This means that every character has to take hide, and anyone who doesn't have hide as a skill list is assumed to be be dead. Also anyone without a sufficiently high Dex, will die.

I'm sorry, they lose 1 level of defense.

Second is terrain, concealment and cover; when I get to it concealment will give a static bonus to targeting class rather than miss chance, but still more tactics and clever skill use keeps you alive.


And places huge amounts of work on the DM, and players complaining like crazy if there is ever a fight without ample terrain.

Any assault on a defensible position, entrance into a dungeon, or meeting on a road, result in losing a level of defense. This happens all of the time. In fact, an unexpected bar fight, against someone throwing a beer bottle at your head, is more deadly than being ambushed.

In fact if cover is that important, you can rename the system D20 cower.

Third you can up your targeting class with magic and feats.


Because dodge was a great feat. Once more you have an either or situation here, either you have a feat that is mandatory (thusly making low feat classes suck) or you have a feat that offers only a nominal bonus (thusly it is no longer a layer of defense).

Fourth, while in melee, you can parry or even counter.


I'm actually pretty sure you system isn't too bad in melee, with only a few bugs to be worked out. I also know that your system is broken as can be with ranged attacks.

Fifth you have armor granting hardness and softening which will drop the blow by much.


What? It's a layer of defense b/c it degrades? Getting easier to hit doesn't really improve your case here.

Sixth your HP is based of either your Constitution or Strength Score, meaning any body-part's HP can range from 10 to 20.


10-20 HP??!? My 1st level rogue, who was hiding (as per your suggestion), can throw a dagger at your head catch you flat footed, and kill a someone with a Con of say, 26, on good roll and really min-maxed stats.

So unless everyone always has a helmet on, you will die from 1st level rogues who hid and throw daggers.

It will take only a few hits to kill some one, but a few rounds is all you need in combat anyways. The rouge can one hit someone with his sneak attack. But you never send snipers against players before epic anyways.


This is bad design, assuming that DMs won't do something because of a convention you have is not the way to balance a system.

And parries. I must remind you, are the basis for truly epic battles. The fighter has counters which he can exchange back and forth until some one gets a strait miss or wants to save his opportunities for later. Now counter spells are more reactive (and possible), its a simple roll of and I may add some more feats to act like a fighter's counter.
Psions will have their own thing when I get to them.

Sorry for the wall of text.


This is why I want a system like this to work, but right now it doesn't. Do some play testing. Play the most obnoxious stuff you can. Make a party of all sniper rogues, make a party without hide. Try to break the system. If you can find a broken combo, or something that should be "held off until later levels" your system has a flaw.

The other problem right now is one of thematics. A brutal system should involve lots of epic fights, that are all very close. Loss of limb shouldn't be uncommon, but shouldn't be insurmountable. When I hear D20 Brutal, I think one eyed barbarians missing 3 fingers, charging into a line of spear men. What your systems ultimate combo is a goblin rogue who hides behind a barrel, throws a dagger and runs away.

Try making the system reward "heroic action" instead of focusing on "ease of death". Loss of limb can be fun, but the called shot system just doesn't work.

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4 years ago  ::  Feb 21, 2009 - 9:49AM #40
Craig13
Date Joined: Feb 4, 2009
Posts: 9

olfactatron wrote:

ITT: I don't understand the notion of people trying to re-write D&D to be something it isn't.


Why not, isn't that what WotC did?

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