I really like "modes" and "talents." I'll have to try those on, and see how they "fit." Thanks!
I try. :D
It was just plain ol' "Empathic Transfer" in the first draft, but when I'm looking at the existing leaders, I notice a theme in the naming. That said, since Artificer already breaks down that naming convention, I can probably change it again. Problem is, I think I've mined every existing 3.5 telepathy power name (at least low-level ones - I'm saving higher levels for Paragon and Epic tier still), including Empathic Transfer (level 1 at-will now), and Telempathic Projection (level 2 utility now). I'll look at what can be done about it though.
I guess I missed telempathic projection in the power list, then; I'll see if anything else comes to mind.
Well then, first off, thanks. And second off, good luck! It's... quite strange, creating classes for 4th edition, but I think it actually helps to understand the system a bit more.
And hey, if you don't want to go through all the trouble, you could just use mine. :D
Well, I sort of feel obligated to go to the trouble. I'm currently* working on converting incarnum, and then I saw people converting the binder and I helped with that, and I helped people with psions, so I've decided that instead of inflicting my conversion ideas on other versions I'd just make my own conversions of those.
*I say currently working on, but I've put it on hold while I work on my DM's Toolkit, so before you ask, no, it's not posted anywhere on the boards.
Had a quick scan if the telepath powers. Feedback so far:
Some of the manipulation type-powers probably need damage added. I think 4e wants every character to do damage alongside its effects to avoid that 3.5-healer-syndrome. *g*
Some of the powers have a rather close range. at the same time, the armor selection is limited to leather. That'll make an awfully frail leader. Wizards get their Int AC bonus, and warlocks their mobility and concealment to save them. The telepath is a glass leader :D
Had a quick scan if the telepath powers. Feedback so far:
Some of the manipulation type-powers probably need damage added. I think 4e wants every character to do damage alongside its effects to avoid that 3.5-healer-syndrome. *g*
Hm. The only one that I striped damage off of that was based on an existing power is Cunning Beckon - based on the Paladin's "Beckon Foe."
The differences between the two powers:
Paladin vs. Telepath ------------------------------------------------------------------- Ranged 5 vs. Ranged 10
Hit: (2d10 + Cha, Pull = WisMod) vs. Hit: (Pull = 3, or 2+WisMod)
For that power, specifically, my intent was to change it from a "hurt target + pull into melee reange" to a "don't hurt target, but pull distant target closer to allies". Should I add damage back in? Should I revert it back to a closer clone of the original (Paladin) power?
The other Cunning Telepath powers that don't deal damage are, I think all Cleric spells that have been reflavored.
Some of the powers have a rather close range. at the same time, the armor selection is limited to leather. That'll make an awfully frail leader. Wizards get their Int AC bonus, and warlocks their mobility and concealment to save them. The telepath is a glass leader :D
Well, glass leader is part of the intent - I want it to be more of a "caster" feeling leader than a big heavy leader. The rather close range is, mostly, a result of many of the powers being Cleric or Leader reflavors (for any melee powers, I think I did 1d6 = 1[W], and Melee touch or Melee weapon = Ranged 5).
If it's not too much, I'd love to give the telepath a bit more range. As it is, like you pointed out, he's going to be shredded by opposing powers.
The feel of the powers seems right.
Go on!
Awesome! I progress!
Moving on to a first draft of Soulknife, most likely. I'm considering...
Soul Link Once per turn as a free, you can create a Soul Link with an enemy you hit with your mind blade. A creature with a link to you is more vulnerable to your attacks.
A Soul Link remains in effect until the end of the encounter or until the linked creature drops to 0 hit points or fewer.
You can create a Soul Link with multiple targets over the course of the encounter; each link requires a free action when you hit the target with your mind blade. You can't create a Soul Link with a creature that is already affected by your or another character's Soul Link.
Psychic Strike If you damage an enemy to whom you have created a Soul Link when using your mind blade, you deal extra psychic damage. You decide whether to apply the extra damage after making the damage roll. You can deal this extra damage once per round.
As you advance in level, you extra damage increases.
[b]Psychic Strike Extra Damage[/b] Level Extra Damage 1st-10th +1d6 psychic 11th-20th +2d6 psychic 21st-30th +3d6 psychic
* * * * * * *
At least, that's what I'm going with, I think. In addition to that, I'm thinking that some powers will have extra effect if you have a Soul Link with the target - including a few that actually end the link as part of the effect.
The goal here is to have an effect similar to other strikers (in this case, it most closely resembles the Warlock, but it's still distinct from it).
But anyways, thanks for the comments, keep 'em rolling!
@ glass leader: Even the wizard will have more AC than your telepath, because of high INT... He has neither striker mobility nor defensive features of the wizard. So I'd either add a defense bonus, a higher armor proficiency or some defensive abilities like that of the wizard (blur/displacement, defensive implement mastery etc...) or remove all melee powers....
@ Soulknife: Soul link concept is good. I'm looking forward to powers that both create and consume your Soul Link. Idea-Flash: Soul Cleave: Melee attack, if it kills establish a soul link with another creature within 5
Important Note: I'd make Soul Link a minor action, not a free one. Similar to hunter's quarry and warlock's curse.
Other Ideas: Powers that teleport you adjacent to your soul link victim. Feedback powers to redirect part of your damage taken to a soul link (breaking the link, probably...)
...Soul Knife is probably the most satisfying design experience of all your classes... there are no 3.5 powers for soulknifes, so you hae no reigns on creativity. Boon and Burden :D
...Soul Knife is probably the most satisfying design experience of all your classes... there are no 3.5 powers for soulknifes, so you hae no reigns on creativity. Boon and Burden :D
Yeah, I'm getting that vibe from it. Starting from scratch is... strange compared to the other classes.
Angel_of_Clumsiness wrote:
Important Note: I'd make Soul Link a minor action, not a free one. Similar to hunter's quarry and warlock's curse.
I wanted it to be, but I didn't know how to word it, and decided "free action" was a nice placeholder.
My intent is to spend the minor action to establish a link to any creature you can see that you hit with your mind blade since the start of your previous turn, but I was worried that people might see a big book-keeping hassle ("which monsters did you hit with that? Didn't you miss him?" etc)
I suppose it would work just as well if it had to be the same turn, though that prevents the Soulknife from linking after charging.
Other Ideas: Powers that teleport you adjacent to your soul link victim. Feedback powers to redirect part of your damage taken to a soul link (breaking the link, probably...)
Definitely yoink'd, and yeah, the intent is to make enough powers to keep the class "bound up" with the Soul Link ability.
So, I'll try to work through the telepath powers, don't know how far I get. I'll look for: - Balance compared to similar power lists (leaders) first, and other power lists later. - Feeling according to fluff. - Uniqueness. If it does the same as another power, maybe it's better to find another mechanic. Last point means I might propose own ideas that you can ponder upon. Also, I definetly think that the telepath should keep out of melee and be a ranged "glass leader". Both already available leaders have either a strong melee option (cleric), or are definetly front-line (warlord), so it'd be good to have a leader in the back row. So I'll set a general range of 10 for my comments on your powers. I didn't take a look at the Artificer yet, so I can't compare to that.
An idea that came up by looking at the powers and thinking: "what could the telepath do that others can't" - it's manipulating enemies to get them where your allies need them. So maybe most powers need your allies close by the enemies to have an effect? That could balance the longer range... it is included in the thoughts below. Secondary thoughts: Telepath could allow for more party mobility by canceling enemies' ability to make Opportunity Attacks. Also, I think the telepath could go with some ranged area effects.
Cunning Manipulation: Basically the same as the Warlord's Commander's Strike. Proposition: Make it ranged (10), give it an additional condition to balance a bit (target must be flanked), leave rest as is. Name is misleading (has nothing to do with the "cunning" telepath build.) Maybe rename it to something like "Distract Enemy" or "Distracting Manipulation".
Empathic Transfer: Cleric's Sacred Flame vs. Will. Increase range to 10, either drop one of the effects (save or temp HP), or add condition (ally must be adjacent to target). Very Telepath, though.
Gleaning Touch: Priest's Shield. Increase Range to 10, change to vs. Will. Affects only one ally adjacent to target, not you and an ally both. Or maybe gives target a -1 attack on the first attack it makes before the start of your next turn, might need re-flavouring then.
Mind Thrust: Lance of Faith. Also the only talent with more than d6 dmg. Maybe add another effect instead of the +attack bonus. Proposition: Enemy takes -2 on all Oportunity Attacks until start of your next turn.
Additional Ideas Implant Attraction: Creates an emotional attraction or pull on the creature. Cha vs Will, range 10, does Cha Mod dmg, target slides 1.
Cunning Suggestion: Great one, unique. Maybe add Cha Mod dmg to the effect.
Empathic Drain:A.k.a. Divine Glow. Set Range 10, change effect to: first ally damaging the target can spend a healing surge (I'd love to hear player discussions as result of this :D ). Empathic Option: All allies attacking gain an attack bonus equal to your Wis Mod until one of them hits.
Mind Blast: Needs range. 10 maybe? , make it area burst 1 within 10, enemies can't make OA until start of your next turn. (to go with Mind Thrust)
Psychic Disruption: Like Wrathfull Thunder or maybe Wizard's Chill Strike. I think that one's ok with Range 10.
Resumée: Nice unique stuff. I really like Cunning Suggestion. One Empathic power, one Cunning power, one area effect, one direct hit with great effect for that lvl. It'll be hard to decide *g*
I'd increase most ranges to 10. Won't write it again
Bolstering Surge: Seems unique, but the effect and hit somehow overlap. Maybe make it close burst 5, targets 1 enemy, allies in burst gain benefit of encounter-increased defenses (don't know about the temp HP). Also make it attack against Ref.... thinking of it, maybe some other powers should deal non-psychic dmg, otherwise you could end up being completely worthless against some enemies...
Disable:Radiant Delirium with reduced damage. Maybe add prone effect ("oh my god, I'm dying!") instead of AC penalty. Target cannot take move actions to stand up unless it saves against the effect. (Equals a -2 attack penalty and a +5 bonus to AC vs. ranged. though it makes a harder target for your ranged powers, your allies will beat him to pulp while he's down:D )
Implant Aversion: Paladins' On Pain of Death. Works for the fluff, though... How about: at the end of the targets turn, the target moves 1 square in any direction you choose. Movement provokes OA as normal (save ends) as effect?
Comments: Only three dailies? Needs a fourth! How about: Channel Aggression: Range 10, vs. Will, Single target, 3d6 + cha mod dmg. Hit:The target suffers a -2 penalty to attack rolls (save ends), and a -5 penalty on saving throws against this effect. Effect: Choose one ally you can see. He recieves a + 2 (type?) bonus to attack rolls until your target saves against Channel Aggression.
All suggestions for you (for now) I'll take a break for now, more to follow
- Make it a free action after attacking an enemy, reagrdless of hit or miss, and limit the number of soul links to 1. Maybe increase the damage then (d8's?), as it is less flexible than other striker's damage abilities.
- Make it a free action after hitting an enemy, but no limit on # of links. (may give interesting strategies in combination with "Mind Arrow"-like powers)
- Make it a Minor Action vs. the closest enemy. (similar to warlock's curse)
Powers Feedback, Part 1 Cunning Manipulation: "Distraction" works, for the name. I think I had "cunning" on it just because it applied the Ingelligence mod. Requiring that the target be flanked seems just too limiting for an At-Will power - that's my only concern with it. What about leaving it somewhere in the middle - Ranged 5, let's say, but with the full normal attack/hit effects? That would make it slightly better than Commander's Strike, but still make it a true "at-will" power.
Empathic Transfer: Yup, most of these are just reflavored powers, with slight modifications. I think changing it from "one ally you can see" to "one ally adjacent to the target" works the best - I see the temp hit points as the primary side-effect, but I don't want to sacrifice one of the only save-granting abilities the telepath has access to.
Gleaning Touch: It's not vs. Will? Well, that slipped in there. Might change the name to "Gleaning Insight" or some such, and the flavor to match the range. Probably just change it to "and one ally adjacent to the target gains a +1 power bonus to AC against any attacks made by the target..." etc.
Mind Thrust: Would you suggest a range-up on this one as well? I'm actually thinking the 5 suits it well enough. I see the +2 attack as an "almost combat advantage" effect. I like the -2 to OpAttacks though. But with that, most allies won't trigger OA's anyways, so the benefit might be moot. I know it would remain striking similar to the cleric power if left as-is, but I think that that might be tolerable here, since the effect is adequate.
Implant Attraction: I like it, though I think I might change the name to "Minor Attraction". Here's my draft, based on your idea: Spoiler:Show
Minor Attraction Telepath Attack 1 With a psychic tap, you plant a faint attraction to a creature, object, or location into the target's mind. At-Will ♦ x ; Charm, Implement, Psionic, Psychic Standard Action ------- Ranged 1 x 0 Target: One creature Attack: Charisma vs. Will Hit: Deal damage equal to your Charisma modifier, and slide the target 1 x square.
Cunning Suggestion: The effect is already more-or-less a modified Cleric's "Cause Fear" - do you think it's been weakened enough to add the damage? If so, Cha damage it is (seems fair enough).
Empathic Drain: The range 10 I can deal with, but I'd rather change the mechanical effect to be more in line with the modified Empathic Transfer - ie, just an ally adjacent to the target. I know the mechanics aren't unique like that, but I think it would make for a more reliable leader (and, lazy as I am, I wouldn't have to change the flavor text). Your suggested effect, though, might make for a great power elsewhere. I want to use it, just not on this power.
Mind Blast: I'm actually thinking of changing the name to "psychic blast", and making a later power (such as in Paragon tier) that does justice to the old Mind Blast power. As such, Area burst 1 within 10 sounds good, and I like the "can't make OpAttacks" for this one. I'll change it to that.
Psychic Disruption: Alright. I'll change it up to Range 10.
Bolstering Surge: I have a few (read: one? two?) Heroic powers that don't deal psychic damage. I want them to be fairly rare. Yes, this makes him a bit of a one-damage-type pony, but I think I'm okay with that, for the class. Clerics are very similar for their non-melee powers, almost always dealing radiant damage. As for the range, it's essentially the same as the power it was based on. The only difference between Close burst 5 and the current setup would be whether or not it draws OpAttacks - do you think I should change it for that?
Disable: Prone is a good effect, but I think it might be a bit too complex. Prone is Combat Advantage, as well, which is more than just +2 attack for your allies. What about, instead, the power is: [indent]Hit: 3d6 + Charisma modifier psychic damage, and the target falls prone. In addition, the target is slowed and cannot shift (save ends both). Miss: Half damage, and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn.[/indent] That way, the effect is different (and useful), and more in line with "controlling movement." It is also quite a bit less complicated to run.
Implant Aversion: I like your idea, but I think I'll leave this one as-is. Probably use that effect for a different power somewhere though.
Channel Aggression: I like the idea. Aha! This could actually be a good way to use your previous suggestion. Here's my thoughts:Spoiler:Show
It draws partially from the rogue's Trick Strike, but trading having to hit for a restriction on where the target can be slid. It might work *shrugs*.
Whew. That's a lot of powers to go through.
Oh, and for the general Ranged 10 change, I originally intended the Telepath to be a bit more survivable. For some reason, Hide armor proficiency didn't transfer over from my document to this thread, but that's supposed to be there.
With hide proficiency, do you still think it fair to increase the ranges to 10? I've really only been looking at the two existing leaders so far, and I think that that's really been shaping my reluctance to make him longer ranged.
Still, even with hide he'll be a "glass leader" as you put it. Without Int as his primary (which the Artificer has), he'll still be as low as the Artificer on defense, and the Artificer's ranges are 10 or Weapon (which should be even further). So, yeah, after looking at it, I'll bump everything up to Ranged 10, except for a specific few that I want shorter range.
Awesome feedback, by the way. Can't wait for you to get through the rest of them (especially the few brackets where I'm missing a power - Utility 6 and Encounter 7, I believe).
Soulknife Ideas
Idea #1]- Make it a free action after attacking an enemy, reagrdless of hit or miss, and limit the number of soul links to 1. Maybe increase the damage then (d8's?), as it is less flexible than other striker's damage abilities.
Well, that actually brings it closer to the Ranger's Quarry ability, so damage would probably have to remain the same. Then again, I think the ranger's striker boost is lower (and limited) because he's more likely than the other strikers to get at least one hit in on a turn.
I could go with 1d6 to start with, and then adjust it later, if need be.
- Make it a free action after attacking an enemy, reagrdless of hit or miss, and limit the number of soul links to 1. Maybe increase the damage then (d8's?), as it is less flexible than other striker's damage abilities.[/quote] Well, that actually brings it closer to the Ranger's Quarry ability, so damage would probably have to remain the same. Then again, I think the ranger's striker boost is lower (and limited) because he's more likely than the other strikers to get at least one hit in on a turn.
I could go with 1d6 to start with, and then adjust it later, if need be.
Idea #2]- Make it a free action after hitting an enemy, but no limit on # of links. (may give interesting strategies in combination with "Mind Arrow"-like powers)
I think this is how I have it written at the moment. I worry about the free action, though, since it's more readily usable than the Warlock's curse. However, this might be balanced by the lack of something similar to the "pact boon" power.
- Make it a free action after hitting an enemy, but no limit on # of links. (may give interesting strategies in combination with "Mind Arrow"-like powers)[/quote] I think this is how I have it written at the moment. I worry about the free action, though, since it's more readily usable than the Warlock's curse. However, this might be balanced by the lack of something similar to the "pact boon" power.
Idea #3]- Make it a Minor Action vs. the closest enemy. (similar to warlock's curse)
I worry that this option would make it too similar to the Warlock's ability.
Overall, I think I favor you first or second idea. I think I'm going to go with the second one, for now, and see if I can make it work. That might just be the lazy way out though, given that that's what I have alrea wrote:
- Make it a Minor Action vs. the closest enemy. (similar to warlock's curse)[/quote] I worry that this option would make it too similar to the Warlock's ability.
Overall, I think I favor you first or second idea. I think I'm going to go with the second one, for now, and see if I can make it work. That might just be the lazy way out though, given that that's what I have already :D .
, make it area burst 1 within 10, enemies can't make OA until start of your next turn. (to go with Mind Thrust)
