"A bard was one of a caste of poets and scholars of medieval and early modern Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall.
Bards (who are not the same as the 'Filidh' or 'Fili') were those who sang the songs recalling the tribal warriors' deeds of bravery as well as the genealogies and family histories of the ruling strata among Celtic societies. The pre-Christian Celtic peoples recorded no written histories; however, Celtic peoples did maintain an intricate oral history committed to memory and transmitted by bards and filid. Bards facilitated the memorization of such materials by the use of poetic meter and rhyme.
As officials of the court of king or chieftain, they performed a number of official roles. They were chroniclers and satirists whose job it was to praise their employers and damn those who crossed them. It was believed that a well-aimed bardic satire, glam dicenn, could raise boils on the face of its target."
Sounds like history to me. If a bard wants to be diplomatic he or she can pick it themselves. If you wish to change it for your game, I encourage you to do so. However, due to the above mentioned, History will stay as the primary skill.
- Fluff: Change Healing Hymn's name to Inspiring Performance and Fascinating Song to Fascinate. I'd also suggest renaming several Powers and rewriting the fluff accordingly, so that they are less based on "songs" and more on "performance"; I could help you with this part, if you want. Finally, I don't think there's a need to name the Bard's Powers "Spellsongs", just name them Spells. After all, if a Paladin strikes someone with a two-handed sword using a Prayer, why can't the Bard hit someone with a rapier or a song using a Spell?
I just wanted to make it sound different. Strictly speaking, the difference between spell-song and spell is the word "song" and makes no in-game impact. I'd suppose for consistency with the rest of the power sources to name it spells only.
- Bardic Knowledge: The bonus should probably increase to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.
Im unsure that a +30% to all knowledge skills sounds like a fair idea. If anything, possibly a +1,+2,+3 ratio or +2, +3, +4.
The bard should indeed get a leg up on other classes with knowledge but not so big.
- Bardic Music: To keep it more in line with the Cleric's Channel Divinity feature, I think the list of Bardic Music powers should be trimmed down to only two: Inspire Courage and Fascinate. Countersong is too situational to be useful as a class feature, and Inspire Competence... Really, even back in 3rd Edition it made no sense - how can a Bard inspire his Rogue companion to pick locks better? Or to move more silently? Really, no wonder Rich Burlew's "Order of the Stick" makes so much fun of this class feature. Countersong could still be learned as a Feat.
Turn undead then seems too situational too wouldn't you agree? Thats the point, turn undead is great should the situation arise. Countersong is great should said situation arise. It might need a few more tweaks but thats the design of it.
Inspire Competence is just an ability that the bard can use to help his comrades in skill challenges or aid them at a distance. And since there are no rules for verbal components for spells, Inspire competence could be just a pat on the back, a whisper, a glance, a thumbs up, a nod of recognition etc.
With that in mind I believe the rogue could indeed pick locks better or move silently better since he knows he has backup.
- Bardic Music Feats: You're giving too many Encounter Powers to the Bard; a Cleric can only choose one Channel Divinity Feat. I'd suggest making all Bardic Music Feats Heroic Tier for now, and only allowing a Bard to learn one.
Thats because the clerics and paladins in my games have some of the divine feats from 3.5 converted to "channel divinity" feats available. The game must expand, and a lot of the old material is still good enough to use with a little tinkering.
If a bard really wanted to pick up more powers with his feat selection instead of other feats why shouldn't he be able to?
Also bear in mind that it wouldn't matter that if a bard had 900 bardic songs because they can only use 1/encounter. or 2 with a feat. (Which I'm pretty sure will also be instituted in some fashion for channel divinity.)
Now what I will concede is that maybe the 2/encounter feat might need to be moved up a tier perhaps. I still have to do a little more play-testing on it.
- Inspire Courage: Since you're not making an attack with it, there's no need for the Implement keyword.
Noted. Will change in the next update.
Improvised Jab: I'd suggest having the attack bonus be based on Intelligence, not Dexterity. While Righteous Jab has Strength as both its attack attribute and its "effect" attribute, the fact that Improvised Jab helps both melee and ranged attacks makes it much more useful than Righteous Jab.
The cleric's power is called "righteous brand" not jab. :P
Actually that was the balancing factor. Improvised jab is supposed to be more useful theoretically. However, you must also realize that righteous brand works on all melee attack rolls and damage until the end of the cleric's next turn. Improvised jab only works on the next attack.
Which means if someone used an action point and had a way to strike an opponent more than once with a power like say the ranger's twin strike, thats potentially three attacks not including an opportunity attack or a fighter's combat challenge. Also bear in mind that the bard has to be in melee range to use the power which means it technically should be better than lance of faith since it can't be used from 5 squares away.
So i'd say with all these things in mind, improvised jab is pretty fair.
Quoted from the bard definition from wikipedia(...)
True, going by a strict definition, all bards should have History. However, if we go by a strict definition, Druids should be radically different from what they are. The D&D Bard isn't, and never has been, a Celtic bard, he's an amalgam of several archetypes - including jongleurs, jesters and others. Which is why I believe Diplomacy fits all Bard archetypes, while History doesn't.
Im unsure that a +30% to all knowledge skills sounds like a fair idea. If anything, possibly a +1,+2,+3 ratio or +2, +3, +4.
+2, +3 and +4 sounds about right. The point is, it should scale up with tier, since the DC for Knowledge checks also does.
Turn undead then seems too situational too wouldn't you agree?
Facing undead is much less situational than facing Powers with the Charm or Thunder keyword, wouldn't you agree?
Thats because the clerics and paladins in my games have some of the divine feats from 3.5 converted to "channel divinity" feats available. The game must expand, and a lot of the old material is still good enough to use with a little tinkering.
While that is true - and I have no doubt we will be seeing more Channel Divinity Feats in future sourcebooks -, then your work loses some of its appeal to others who prefer their homebrews to stick as close as possible to the official rules.
The cleric's power is called "righteous brand" not jab. :P
Right, my bad. Since you haven't answered my suggestions about "re-fluffing" the class, I assume you feel that's not necessary.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well. Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead. - Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality!(No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
+2, +3 and +4 sounds about right. The point is, it should scale up with tier, since the DC for Knowledge checks also does.
I'll run the math on the dc's and skill challenges later. I'll post later what I come up with.
Facing undead is much less situational than facing Powers with the Charm or Thunder keyword, wouldn't you agree?
A lot of creatures have powers with the charm keyword. Aboleth's, Beholders, Bone Devil, Succubus, Green Dragons, ghosts, Mind Flayers, Some Nagas, Vampires. However not many have lingering effects...
But I see what you're saying, I'll probably change the power to help defenses against attacks with those keywords rather than as use as written.
Since you haven't answered my suggestions about "re-fluffing" the class, I assume you feel that's not necessary.
Put simply, yes the re-fluffing would make the bard more generic for other archetypes. Do I want to do it right now? no I'm kinda working on some other project + studying.
I also don't believe its superbly detrimental to the class right now that its more geared towards the singing aspect.
Maybe its just because its 1:30 in the morning that I can't make up my mind. Hmm I wonder...
Put simply, yes the re-fluffing would make the bard more generic for other archetypes. Do I want to do it right now? no I'm kinda working on some other project + studying.
I also don't believe its superbly detrimental to the class right now that its more geared towards the singing aspect.
Maybe its just because its 1:30 in the morning that I can't make up my mind. Hmm I wonder...
Hey, you know what, Saric? I've changed my mind, I agree with you: it's better to leave the Bard focused on music and lore! Those who prefer to play a jongleur, an acrobat and other, non-musical types of Bards can still play a Rogue, perhaps multiclassed into Bard. That said, here's a new suggestion: let the Bard have both Diplomacy and History as automatic trained Skills, plus a choice of four others - or maybe three. However, I still suggest trimming down both the Class Skills list and the Bardic Music options.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well. Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead. - Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality!(No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
Hey, you know what, Saric? I've changed my mind, I agree with you: it's better to leave the Bard focused on music and lore! Those who prefer to play a jongleur, an acrobat and other, non-musical types of Bards can still play a Rogue, perhaps multiclassed into Bard. That said, here's a new suggestion: let the Bard have both Diplomacy and History as automatic trained Skills, plus a choice of four others - or maybe three. However, I still suggest trimming down both the Class Skills list and the Bardic Music options.
Yeah I'm probably going to move countersong and inspire competence to feat powers. The current skill list available seems pretty decent, except for the fact that maybe thievery and perception could be cut. However, bard's in 3.5 had listen and sleight of hand. As for thievery, it probably should stay because if a warlock gets it, why shouldn't a trickster bard be able to get it?
Perception has a 50-50 chance of getting dropped. But what kind of bard is one who can't pay attention to the finest and faint intricacies of prose and song?
However, bard's in 3.5 had listen and sleight of hand. As for thievery, it probably should stay because if a warlock gets it, why shouldn't a trickster bard be able to get it? Perception has a 50-50 chance of getting dropped. But what kind of bard is one who can't pay attention to the finest and faint intricacies of prose and song?
I think you may be basing yourself too much on 3rd Edition. Sleight of Hand is only a small part of Thievery; ditto for Listen and Perception. Personally, however, I'd remove Athletics, Dungeoneering and Religion*.
*I know Bards should know about a lot of stuff, but that's basically what Bardic Knowledge is for. If the Bard also has Jack of All Trades, he would have a +4 bonus to all Dungeoneering and Religion checks - almost the same as being trained in the skills.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well. Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead. - Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality!(No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
Again, many thanks for your bard class. I'm definatly using it on my campaings. But I've been doing some changes here and there mostly on fulfill my personal feelings about possible balance issues and fit better my campaing's bard.
So, I'd like to share one of the major changes I've done so far. It's the War Chanter Paragon Path, which is the paragon the bard of my campaign will be using in near future:
War Chanter Path Features
Inspire Recklessness (11th level): When you spend an action point to take an extra action, you and your allies may choose to gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls until the start of your next turn. Anyone choosing to take this attack bonus will also receive a -1 penalty to AC until the start of your next turn. Your allies need to be able to see and hear you to gain this bonus.
Singing Shout (11th level): On the first round of combat (or both the first and the surprise round if your allies gain a surprise round), allies who start their turn within 10 squares of you gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls.
War Chanter Music (16th level): You can use your Bardic music one extra time per encounter.
Inspire Awe [COLOR="LemonChiffon"] ____________ War Chanter Attack 11[/COLOR] You showcase your finest vision of the chaos of battle, placing dread in the hearts of your enemies. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Fear, Implement Standard Action ____________ Close burst 5 Target: All enemies within burst Attack: Charisma vs. Will Hit: The target is immobilized and grants combat advantage to you and your allies until the end of your next turn. Effect: The target takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls. (save ends)
Inspire Toughness [COLOR="LemonChiffon"] ____________ War Chanter Utility 12[/COLOR] Your song or poetics inspire a berserk resiliency on your allies. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Healing Immediate Reaction ____________ Close burst 15 Trigger: You target at least one ally with your Bardic Music. Target: Each ally affected by your Bardic Music in burst Effect: Each target gain temporary hit points equal to 5 + your Charisma modifier.
Inspire Legion [COLOR="LemonChiffon"] ____________ War Chanter Attack 20[/COLOR] You release a battle cry that unites your allies with the fervor of the ancient armies of the past. Daily ✦ Arcane, Implement, Thunder Standard Action ____________ Ranged 10 Target: One Creature Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude Hit: 3d8 + Charisma modifier thunder damage and every ally within 10 squares of you can make a basic attack as a free action. Miss: One ally within 10 squares of you can make a basic attack as a free action. Effect: Until the end of the encounter, whenever you or an ally scores a critical hit, the attacker that scored the critical hit can choose an ally within10 squares of him. That ally can make a basic attack as a free action.
My main intention on doing these changes was to simplify things with complicated mechanics (powers used as part of charge) or things that I felt were not usual to 4th ed. mechanics (stat switching or enhancement; combination of encounter powers, etc)
Secondly, I've considered build concept... this was a path with one power based on Charisma and other power based on Dexterity. Not usual for paragon paths to be based on primary and thirdiary powers at the same time. The choice for Charisma I've made was to fulfill the needs of my own campign's bard that is a Musician. However making this a Dex based path would be ok and would not be dificult at all.
Finally, I benchmarked other classes and powers looking for similarities... for exemple Singing Shout description on 3.5 is quite similar to 4th ed. Battle Captain's Cry Havoc, so I've kept the power the same from Warlord's path.
The main difficult on converting was Inspire Legion since 4th ed. is very prohibitive on stat changes and enhancement of any kind. So I've sticked with a 4th ed. mechanic that represents fightning union on higher levels.
That is it! I'm all open to inputs, critics and/or suggestions.
My main intention on doing these changes was to simplify things with complicated mechanics (powers used as part of charge) or things that I felt were not usual to 4th ed. mechanics (stat switching or enhancement; combination of encounter powers, etc)
Indeed. It seems Saric is basing himself too much on 3.5, which, in my opinion, is bad, since 4th Edition's design principles are different.
Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But the good name never dies of one who has done well. Cattle die, kindred die, every man is mortal. But I know one thing that never dies: the glory of the great dead. - Hávamál
D&D 4th Edition Bard builds: The Dashing Swordsman, The Master of Sound and Illusions, The Warrior Skald
Captain Morality!(No point in not having fun with it. ;-))
