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catt wrote:

Well, yeah, but the way I read it implies that you actually make an attack roll. But I can see your point as well. My real concern is that it is basically two things in one - an attack against a single target, and then an effect that "hits" everyone. Just seems jarring to me that way. But that's just my 2/100ths of a buck.

But the Cleric's Knights require action on the part of the character to do anything, so you mostly conserve economy of actions. As an aside, isn't it kind of weird that to make the Knights attack, you use a minor action, but just to move them requires a move action? But I digress...

Quite true, but once you have one, then you have precedence for another. And even if that other is a wizard power, then you just multiclass and you can have two "free action" summons at once. Slippery slope and all that. I just oppose any power that effectively gives a character extra actions for an extended duration. Then again, when I consider how many rolls large area effects do sometimes entail, especially if successful hits also lead to multiple save-ends effects...

I think I may just have negative associations with summoning due to the 87 skeleton army of 3E necromancer party members...

Actually in epic levels the number of skeletons could be infinite as long as you had bodies but thats another story...

I see what you're saying about a chain reaction, I'll run some play-testing on the shadow later tonight. I'll reword it to be more clear in the next update.

zebode wrote:

Oh man, I can't thank you enough. I'm switching my 3 year long 3.5 campaign to 4th and the party bard was my major problem!!! Many, many, many thanks from your brazilians folks here!

The only thing I've found so far:



The way it is written it seems quite unbalanced even if it was a daily. It becomes an attack debuff that lasts forever, without an ending specification.

Now, I'm not sure what would be better for balacing, since it is an at-will:

An one shot penalty:


or

An one round penalty:

Since I've been rather busy/lazy recently I have not updated the thread. However, the pdf links at the beginning of the thread contain a good amount of changes.

For your convincence I'm quoting the pdf.

Inhibiting Song Bard Attack 1
You sing or play a strange verse, distracting your foe's attention from your allies.
At Will ✦ Arcane, Thunder, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Attack: Charisma vs. Will
Hit: 1d6 + Charisma modifier thunder damage. Target takes a -2 penalty on its next attack roll.

I'm glad you can get some use out of this class. send any more potential issues my way. I occasionally check the thread from time to time to put more errata in for the next release.

FlimFlam wrote:

Very nice work...

I'll throw a couple suggestions at you as well...

Bardic Music: Inspire Courage
Change the bonus type. Instead of giving a +1 power bonus to attack and damage, make it a +1 morale bonus. This would keep in theme with the Bard inspiring it's comrads, plus allow it to stack with any power bonus that another class may grant (and there are several).

Read page 275 for power bonus:
"A power bonus derives from a power or a class feature."

The whole point of 4th edition is to not have 30 different bonuses stacking like in 3.0-3.5. No morale, circumstance, insight, luck, sacred, profane, deflection, natural armor, resistance bonuses.

For the Bardic Music powers, perhaps instead of having them end at the end of your next turn (as most of them seem to do) you can remove that with a Sustain: Minor. Again, this seems in flavor of how Bard's used to work, continuously singing songs in battle and continuing to grant benefits.

Because 4th edition encounter powers are not supposed to be sustained. I dare you to look in the book and see how many low level "encounter" powers that can be sustained.

Astral shield is a cleric one but its level 16 power.

And lets put it into perspective. a stackable +1 to +3 bonus is a 5%-15% more chance to hit. Why wouldn't a bard not use this every fight and why would anyone be a cleric/warlord when this is clearly better than their class features?

Not sure I like how you diverge from how powers increase. For example, Healing Hymn grows stronger at levels 6, 11, 16, 21 and 26. This isn't in unison with how abilities usually grow, just at each tier (11th and 21st levels). But that is just a minor nit pick and just a suggestion.

Not to seem like attacking you, but have you even read the warlord and cleric "healing" abilities? They both are identical and since the bard is a leader I made it follow along the same lines, otherwise the bard wouldn't be able to keep up with the others.

I think Inciting Strike At-Will might be too strong. Compare it to the Paladin's At-Will Bolstering Strike. They just get a flat Wis Mod for temporary Hit Points, not the bonus 1/2 level AND they can only apply it to themselves, whereas the Bard can pick himself or an ally. I think temp hit points are a strong thing in this edition (basically replaces DR from 3.5), and if you are going to have an At-Will power that grants temp HP, you shouldn't make it too good. I would suggest removing the +1/2 level.

Err, first of all the bard is a leader not a defender. Comparing two different class roles doesn't accomplish that much. 2nd of all, if you hadn't noticed the bard can only pick an ally. You must have misread it since I double checked the pdfs, and the thread which really hasn't been updated that much.

Inciting Strike - Bard Attack 1
By striking in a skilled fashion, your allies are inspired to fight longer.
At Will ✦ Arcane, Weapon
Standard Action Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs. AC
Hit: 1[w]+Dexterity modifier damage,and one ally you can see gains temporary hit points equal to your Intelligence modifier + one-half your level.
Increase damage to 2[w]+ Dexterity modifier at 21st level.


Lastly, the cleric power "sacred flame" does the same thing as a ranged attack and gives the ally the option of temporary hit points = cha mod + 1/2 level or to make a saving throw.

With all due respect, you should do a little more research of comparable classes before calling overpowered.