Magic Missile became 3.5 Warlock's Eldritch Blast. If you miss the olde magic missile, like i do... let's "fix" it.
First we make it an Encounter Power. Remove the roll to hit. Magic missile hits, end of discussion. That's part of what made it distinct. It didn't hit hard, but it always hit.
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1 You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One creature Attack: NA Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage. Increase damage to 4d4 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Special: This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can use this power.
But magic missile also used to be able to target multiple opponents.
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1 You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy. Daily ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One target per 5 levels Attack: NA Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage. Increase damage to 4d4 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Special: This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can use this power.
Perhaps those of you more familiar with the behind the scenes balancing math could tweak these. i'm open to suggestion. If you don't like the idea, then pretend you've already posted your complaints and please move on. If you have something useful to contribute, please do!
I'd offer the following, to bring it closer to what it used to be:
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1 You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: Up to three targets Attack: Int v. Fort (only need to roll to see if you hit critically or miss a minion) Hit: d4+Int force damage Miss: d4+Int force damage Special: Increase number of targets to six at 11th level and to nine at 21st level. (You may target one opponent with multiple missiles)
The trick is that it won't kill minions on a miss. Still, I think that preserves the flavor of magic missile.
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1 You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy. Daily ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One target per 5 levels Attack: NA Hit: 2d4 + Intelligence modifier force damage. Increase damage to 4d4 + Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Special: This power counts as a ranged basic attack. When a power allows you to make a ranged basic attack, you can use this power.
At level 30, assuming at least a 20 Int (+5):
4d4+5= 15 Average damage
15*6= 90 damage total amongst 6 targets.
Auto hit.
Gut feeling, an Encounter power doing an AUTOMATIC 90 damage, even if it's split between 6 targets, seems too much. Bye bye, swarm of minions. I mean, even at low levels, it is a minion wipe.
Also, why is it a Ranged Basic if it is encounter? You only get it once.
To me, this doesn't really emulate the old MM, mainly because it is way more powerful. Every Wizard would have this. Also, it just seems that auto-hitting is not a part of the 4E style. It interacts poorly with minions, and I'm sure there are other ways to abuse this.
Although the new MM is not mechanicly the same as that of old, I think it does what is important: it has the SPIRIT of MM in mind. A quick ranged attack that can be used many times per day, the Wizards basic strike. I think they did that perfectly.
OK. But magic missile didn't miss. If the caster can see the target, the spell hits. That's part of what made it different from Acid Arrow. And there was no saving throw, unlike AoE spells. It also didn't crit. The trade off of no crit for no roll to hit seems fair to me. If i'm going to roll to hit, i might as well use a bow, that goes back to the complaint about 4E that the classes aren't different. The difference between a bow and magic missile seems to be which stat we use. *yawn*
i like what you did with the number of targets math.
What would be a fair trade off to bring back "magic missile hits, no roll, no save"?
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1 (Version 3) You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: Up to three targets Attack:NA Hit: d4+Int force damage Miss: d4+Int force damage Special: Increase number of targets to six at 11th level and to nine at 21st level. (You may target one opponent with multiple missiles)
The difference between a bow and magic missile seems to be which stat we use. *yawn*
Pretty much. That's supposed to be the point, really. MM in 4E is an infinite supply of magic arrows that don't require a bow and are affected by your normal impliment.
The difference between a bow and a sword seems to be which stat we use. *yawn*
i like what you did with the number of targets math.
Thanks.
What would be a fair trade off to bring back "magic missile hits, no roll, no save"?
Again, I'd say "There is none". Auto-hit = Minion Nuke. With the newest iteration you have made, for example, you can auto-kill three minions PER TEIR. Indulge me with more numbers:
At Heroic, you kill 3 minions. That is almost an entire standard monster worth.
At Paragon, you kill 6 minions, which is slightly MORE than one standard monster worth. Think of it in those terms. I just killed a standard monster with one encounter power, with ZERO miss chance. At Paragon.
At Epic, you kill about TWO standard monsters worth of them. One encounter power. Auto-killing two standard monsters. Every encounter.
No Wizard will be without it.
Even ignoreing minions for a sec (which are my biggest concern here, as you may tell), look at the math against other monsters:
Level one, 16 Int (+3): 1d4+3= 5.5 Average per MM 5.5*3 Missles= 16.5 damage, no miss, once per encounter.
Level 11, let's just say you have a +4 Int: 1d4+4= 6.5 Average per MM 6.5*6 Missles= 39.5 damage, no miss, once per encounter.
Level 21, +5 Int: 1d4+5= 7.5 Average per MM 7.5*9= 67.5 damage, no miss, once per encounter.
It still strikes me as way too powerful.
I have no real suggestions, as I think that onld style MM just isn't viable in the new system. There are too many pitfalls.
What about just keeping it as-is (Old School, I mean) and making it an INT vs REF, At-Will, no auto-hit?
Give a player a fish, and he’ll probably try to sell it to an NPC fisherman.
Teach a player to fish, and next week he’ll show up with the book, “The Complete Adventuring Fisherman”. He’ll start hunting for some monstrous leviathan to catch and enslave, and he’ll be dual-wielding two fishing poles.
I can understand the allure of a "never miss" magic missile. But because of minions, wizards are still going to have to roll to hit.
At most, I'd say if you eliminate the spell's ability to inflict a critical hit, you can simply have the wizard not roll to hit, unless he targets minions (who never take damage on a miss).
But Rustmonster is absolutely correct that a spell that never needs to roll an attack is unbalanced as against minions pretty much by definition.
Why do you have a scaling Encounter power? If you're bumping it up to Encounter, it shouldn't be scaling anymore (though it can be available in multiple iterations as levels go up).
Personally, if I wanted a "no-miss" Magic Missile, I would have (borrowing Wrecan's formatting):
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 1 You launch a silvery bolt of force at an enemy. At-Will ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One creature Attack: Int v. Refl Hit: 2d4+Int modifier force damage Miss: Int modifier force damage Increase damage to 4d4+Int modifier force damage at 21st level. Special:Counts as a ranged basic attack.
If I wanted a "group" Magic Missile, I would have something like:
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 3 You launch several silvery bolts of force at the enemy. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One creature, or two creatures within 5 squares of each other. Attack: Int v. Refl, Two Attacks Hit: 2d4+Int modifier force damage per attack Miss: Int modifier force damage per attack
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 13 You launch several silvery bolts of force at the enemy. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One, two, or three creatures within 5 squares of each other. Attack: Int v. Refl, Three Attacks Hit: 2d4+Int modifier force damage per attack Miss: Int modifier force damage per attack
Magic Missile Wizard Attack 23 You launch several silvery bolts of force at the enemy. Encounter ✦ Arcane, Force, Implement Standard Action Ranged 20 Target: One, two, three, four, or five creatures within 5 squares of each other. Attack: Int v. Refl, Five Attacks Hit: 2d4+Int modifier force damage per attack Miss: Int modifier force damage per attack
Does the wizard see the name of the target in green, yellow, red or grey with a skull so they know who to shoot first/last?
"Hold fast companions, I shall remove the 1 hit point minions from the battlefield momentarily".
*sigh* Auto hit and any amount of damage appears to be incompatible with minions. There would be no fair way to justify not using minions, or having minions with resistance to MM. If it hits more than one target in a round it's even less compatible. Even as a daily power.
Tis a shame. MM was one of the staple and traditional spells. You could count on it to hit, even if it didn't do much.
It seems possible though to allow MM to have multi-targeting as an encounter power with an attack roll, in the form of the suggested Encounter power.
Wrecan's version is the closest i can get to the beloved MM.
Thanks for the input, folks!
What about just keeping it as-is (Old School, I mean) and making it an INT vs REF, At-Will, no auto-hit?
Why would i start a thread about keeping it as is?
