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5 years ago ::
Jun 17, 2008 - 4:35AM
#41
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Moved at VCL request.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2008 - 4:17AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Oct 14, 2006
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Mmm, it feels good to be posting again. It's been too long.
RobbyPants, in response to your first concern about a numeric system vs. a subjective system, I think we're mostly just suggesting several different ways this idea could be used. I'm not even sure I like all of the things I've said, but they're all ideas, at the least.
In response to your second question, well, I think Jules got that pretty well. Depends on how good the people tracking your loyalty/devotion/patriotism are at tracking you. Devotion to a deity, you might be able to fool other followers, but the deity will always know if it drops. Patriotism to a country, you can usually fake. Methinks.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2008 - 12:18PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2005
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I guess the question that's been bugging me is: how would this actually be implemented for a character?
The fact that any given character has several obligation ratings means that it will inherently be a bit complicated, but at the same time, you don't want it to be massively overcomplicated. You don't want, for example, for there to be 30 obligation ratings for each character. So actual implementation, if any, would require a mixture of retaining enough breadth and flavor without going to far toward clutter.
Currently, the suggested ORs are, from myself 1. Pursuit of Retreating Enemies 2. Treatment of Prisoners 3. Protection of Civilians 4. Charity 5. Sexual Probity 6. Animal Welfare 7. Opposition to Evil Forces 8. Nonviolence 9. Mental Autonomy
From RobbyPants 10. Theft 11. Honesty 12. Obedience
From Tim4488 13. Promises 14. Community and Security 15. Laws 16. Personal Code/Flexibility
Sixteen seems like a bit much. I'm thinking of trying to pare it down to, say, less than eight "standard" obligation ratings, and leave a room for a personal obligation rating ("Brelish patriotism" and/or "Faith in the Sovereign Host" for instance) or two.
I'm thinking maybe...
Fold Pursuit of Retreating Enemies and Treatment of Prisoners into a single OR: "Mercy in Victory."
Personal Code and Obedience could be abolished if we were to just allow for personal ORs that don't apply to everyone. Instead of "Personal code 2" or "obedience 2," a character might have "Piety of Bahamut 2."
Promises and Honesty can be folded into one: just honesty will do, I think.
Protection of Civilians could be scrapped, perhaps, and have its principles embedded in other ORs like charity, nonviolence, opposition to evil, etc.
Laws and Community and Security could be folded into one, with some bits of Community and Security going to Charity.
Maybe scrap Animal Welfare and Sexual Probity? I think they're cool ORs, but ultimately, if you want to cut back, they seem at least relatively dispensable.
In addition, Mental Autonomy could be folded into a broader "Respect for Freedom" OR which would include limitations on use of mind-control powers as well more mundane ways in which freedom could be limited, like throwing someone in a dungeon for criticizing your rule if you're a lord or the like.
Theft is fine, but the name is a bit inconsistent with the theme, here -- ORs are supposed to describe what you should do, not what you shouldn't. So what we're really looking for is non-theft -- Respect for Property?
So, that would leave:
1. Mercy in Victory 2. Charity 3. Opposition to Evil 4. Nonviolence 5. Respect for Freedom 6. Respect for Property 7. Honesty 8. Law and Community
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5 years ago ::
Jun 19, 2008 - 9:43PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Mar 13, 2007
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Those 8 seem good.
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5 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2008 - 8:07PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Nov 14, 2005
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Okay, so maybe we could see how it works out in actual practice:
Jolas d'Allesbert, the Orcslayer
Jolas is a courageous warrior by all acounts. His face is covered in scars, and an eyepatch covers one of his eyes. He is devoted to the destruction evil where he can find it. He is especially devoted to cleansing the world of orc-kind, but many others have faced his halberd -- bandits, goblins, demons, undead, criminals.
Ratings:
Mercy in Victory: 0. Jolas is content to cut down enemies even as they attempt to surrender, and almost never takes prisoners. Except in extraordinary circumstances, the best a beaten foe of Jolas can hope for is a quick slit to the throat or an arrow in the back in the attempted retreat..
Charity: 1. Jolas does not donate to charity, ordinarily, spending his money on improving his equipment for missions and the like. He is always willing to help those in need when it coincides with his aims, and many of his quests begin with a local village headman complaining of orc incursions nearby. When it is convenient to help, and little sacrifice is involved, he is willing to do so.
Opposition to Evil: 3. Jolas has devoted his life to destroying evil. He is relentless in this task and has little time for other matters, besides the essentials of food, drink, and rest, and a few fleeting, ephemeral friendships with fellow-adventurers.
Nonviolence: 0. Jolas resorts to violence easily and without qualms. If anything would raise moral qualms for him in his dealings with orcs, it would be in interacting with them in some manner other than killing.
Respect for Freedom: 0. Jolas does not use enchantments, telepathy, or other mind-control spells, both because he cannot use them, and because he finds them dishonorable at any rate. However, he isn't very willing to let others speak their minds or express opinions when he feels it besmirches his honor. Those who he feels insult or disrespect him are ordered to retract their words, and if they do not, they are challenged to duels. If they do not accept, they are cut down where they stand, unarmed. Jolas feels that he must do this to preserve his honor.
Respect for Property: 2. Jolas never steals from the living, and rarely even loots tombs. (Orc tombs may be an exception). He mostly loots the bodies of slain enemies.
Honesty: 2. Jolas is generally honest, more than most people, but he is willing to lie in some rare circumstances, when he feels that it is necessary for his cause. He honors his promises, believing that to break any promise would be to dishonor himself.
Law and Community: 2. Jolas generally respects the law, and is unwilling to break it except under dire circumstances. While his life as a wandering adventurer does not allow him to put deep roots in any one community, he aims to bring stability and security to the towns he visits, destroying threats to their security, such as nearby orcs.
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