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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 1:16PM
#51
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foes can shoot arrows at you while you run. Is it the players fault that the foes switched out to crossbows or short/longbows and started firing at you? And lets not forget as you were in combat with the foe, leaving the area lets them make an attack on you.
It's not a big exaggeration to say that retreat is impractical or suicidal once combat started. A lot of enemies can move faster than the PC in heavy armor moving at 20' and would cut off a retreating party. Many have range attacks or can charge to get off a lot of free attacks at the fleeing PCs. Retreat is usually possible only if the PCs have some way of slowing down their enemies, ie. casting solid fog, entangle behind them as they run.
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 1:30PM
#52
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2007
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It's not a big exaggeration to say that retreat is impractical or suicidal once combat started. A lot of enemies can move faster than the PC in heavy armor moving at 20' and would cut off a retreating party. Many have range attacks or can charge to get off a lot of free attacks at the fleeing PCs. Retreat is usually possible only if the PCs have some way of slowing down their enemies, ie. casting solid fog, entangle behind them as they run.
right retreat is not dishonorable it just gets you killed later when you could have made a stand where you were and maybe the luck will be with you and you pull the victory out of your hat of tricks.
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 1:42PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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foes can shoot arrows at you while you run. Is it the players fault that the foes switched out to crossbows or short/longbows and started firing at you? And lets not forget as you were in combat with the foe, leaving the area lets them make an attack on you.
If the monster have bows, they will be clearly apparent, and the PCs will know this before making the decision to retreat or not. Usually this decision is made before the encounter starts, but sometimes it can be made in a (weaker characters head out first while stronger characters hold the monsters off) manor... I usually place an other encounter in the path of the retreating party, just because I like a lot of excitement, so long as it does not become corny. This is simply how my group of players enjoys playing, and does not need to reflect on anyone else. However, they have managed to come up with tactics that work better than expected most times, of course there are accidents, but they are rare... and I allow those to take days to heal from, (yes in town) while only taking ten seconds of real time.
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 1:42PM
#54
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right retreat is not dishonorable it just gets you killed later when you could have made a stand where you were and maybe the luck will be with you and you pull the victory out of your hat of tricks.
Ooo....maybe that knight or paladin who stands his ground against a red dragon isn't so much brave or honourable as he's keenly aware that it's his best chance of surviving.
The enemy don't even need range weapons. Once you're in melee against an opponent, you can't get away even if you're using the withdraw action to double move. If the enemy has a speed equal or greater to yours, you just gave him a free charge to hit you unless there's an obstacle between the two of you.
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 2:18PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2007
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If the monster have bows, they will be clearly apparent, and the PCs will know this before making the decision to retreat or not. Usually this decision is made before the encounter starts, but sometimes it can be made in a (weaker characters head out first while stronger characters hold the monsters off) manor... I usually place an other encounter in the path of the retreating party, just because I like a lot of excitement, so long as it does not become corny. This is simply how my group of players enjoys playing, and does not need to reflect on anyone else. However, they have managed to come up with tactics that work better than expected most times, of course there are accidents, but they are rare... and I allow those to take days to heal from, (yes in town) while only taking ten seconds of real time.
The decision to retreat will be known before the encounter?
If your group likes to do Hack 'n Slash more power to them, that is your group's decision.
My group thinks that the 6hr rest rule is nice and they are looking forward to reading up about it when 4th ed comes out.
The days spent in town, is that total bed rest? Do you allow people to buy random items during the down time? What do you do when the player who during the last downtime buys a +5 vorpal longsword of doom and neglects to mention it and tries to use it stating i bought it during my downtime?
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 2:32PM
#56
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2008
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Yeah, I kinda did a double-take over the "hp have never been abstract" line. So then how come a sword is lethal at first level and a twentieth you can be stabbed over and over and over and over with barely a dent? I don't recall any novels where people suddenly become sword-proof.
I meant hp in D&D games in my experience. Out of the many, many games I've played in a variety of campaigns under different DM's, I've only met one that really tried to stay true to HP as abstract. Pretty much all the other DM's described actual cuts, bruises and other injuries from the loss of hit points.
That and the wound system doesn't seem solid. It doesn't reflect environmental damage (your own system doesn't reflect swimming in lava) and doesn't take into consideration damage not based on strength. We already know rogues do damage based on weapon+dex to say nothing of spell criticals. Why should a warlock's eldrict blast critical do less damage because the user isn't a big brute with a club?
Well for one, lava supposedly kills people instantly... so I don't have to deal with it. I just use the bathing in lava thing to represent severe burns from a high heat source. I don't have the rules, so I'll eventually tweak the wound rules to something that makes more sense based on 4e rules instead of 4e previews.
It also doesn't progress well at higher levels. A level 7 dragon could easily have a 24 strength doing 1d6+7 wounds, likely instantly penalizing the victim. Two lucky criticals and a character is suffering a fairly substantial -2 penalties to attacks. It also penalizes people further for suffering a critical hit. They get nailed for penalties for the rest of the fight in addition to severe damage and no way to recover mid-combat. And it gives a large advantage to high-crit weapons: not only do they have a chance for massive damage but they debuff the enemy.
Which is why you don't throw as difficult of encounters at the party. Besides, the penalty for the amount of wounds is easily adjustable and can even be based on strength or constitution if need be. I could always make it 10 + Con/Str + 1/2 Level as well. What I've posted so far is merely my initial draft for playtesting.
The question also occurs, do monsters also suffer wounds?
Not really, unless it's important to the story. =)
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 2:35PM
#57
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2008
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The days spent in town, is that total bed rest? Do you allow people to buy random items during the down time? What do you do when the player who during the last downtime buys a +5 vorpal longsword of doom and neglects to mention it and tries to use it stating i bought it during my downtime?
First, you laugh at the player.
Second, you remind them that your campaign doesn't have magic item shops.
Third, you tell them to go back to CRPG's if they whine about it.
Seriously though... I don't allow players to buy anything but mundane equipment in general during downtime between adventures or when they need to rest/heal. Purchasing expensive items like armor, mastercrafted weapons, steeds, and the like can lead to adventure hooks through roleplaying the shopkeeper.
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 2:56PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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The decision to retreat will be known before the encounter?
(clip)
The days spent in town, is that total bed rest? Do you allow people to buy random items during the down time? What do you do when the player who during the last downtime buys a +5 vorpal longsword of doom and neglects to mention it and tries to use it stating i bought it during my downtime?
Usually, as in the PCs see that they are outmatched, so they avoid the encounter altogether (mayhap that's not the same as retreating). Otherwise there are tactics used in an unplaned retreat. It depends who has the most HP left at the point.
No not total bed rest, and yes purchases of mundane items may occur during this time. Magic items are not available for sale. If the characters want those they get them the honest way; by killing monsters and looting their treasure.
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 3:29PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2007
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Usually, as in the PCs see that they are outmatched, so they avoid the encounter altogether (mayhap that's not the same as retreating). Otherwise there are tactics used in an unplaned retreat. It depends who has the most HP left at the point.
Yeah I don't view avoiding the encounter altogether as retreating.
How do you know who has the most hp? Does the DM have a HP bar over the monsters heads letting you know that he is 100-0% of their hp?
But assuming that the players got away, what is the harm is saying in 6hrs of rest heals them? (and please not use the "unrealistic" line cause I will just respond with "its a fantasy game")
After reading some of Keep on the Shadowfell, it seems that they can only do this once. I have more of a problem with that then the 6hr rest
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5 years ago ::
May 27, 2008 - 3:47PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Aug 30, 2007
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Yeah I don't view avoiding the encounter altogether as retreating.
How do you know who has the most hp? Does the DM have a HP bar over the monsters heads letting you know that he is 100-0% of their hp?
But assuming that the players got away, what is the harm is saying in 6hrs of rest heals them? (and please not use the "unrealistic" line cause I will just respond with "its a fantasy game")
After reading some of Keep on the Shadowfell, it seems that they can only do this once. I have more of a problem with that then the 6hr rest
Who is the least injured, or can take most abuse at the moment. Does that work for ye?
My players find 6 hours to heal to be too Monty Haul
Fantasy does not mean total rejection of realism
Only once should be necessary. My characters learned quickly how to use unexpected tactics to minimize the enemies chance to attack and maximize their own. (gorilla tactics are especially effective against classically trained military, as we USians fornd out in Korea and Vietnam)
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