If we use the 'Dragon Gone Mad' idea, I think it would be interesting to use a dragon which is normally good aligned. An insane Gold Dragon ravaging the country side.
I just think it would be nice to try to use something different; give PCs (possibly once they are high enough level) a chance to fight a monster which they normally don't get to see as a monster.
The gold dragon was trapped via magic by a less than good mayor/other official of the town a long time ago. She didn't care what kind of creature she trapped; all she needed was a power source, and she figured out a way to tap into the dragon's magical energies by trapping him -similar to espers as you mentioned.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
For the location of the city, so that we see the most diversity, I vote for something akin to the coastal region northwestern United States. It is temperate, mountainous, forested, coastal, etc. This will give us a climate that we are all familiar with, with the benefits of limitless lumber, fishing, our caves, etc.
I would prefer a more tropical setting , but that is neither here nor there.
PerennialRook wrote:
On to the topic of dragonborn and tieflings. I think that we should try and dodge that bullet altogether by including them from the start. The people of the city should be comfortable with all of the civilized races. They should also be comfortable with magic, etc.
I have not seen it mentioned anywhere, so why does everyone keep assuming the refugees are from a "human" city. Perhaps it was a tiefling or elven city and humans are in the minority.
PerennialRook wrote:
Why a dragon? Because it wouldn't take the time to destroy every last inhabitant, but is powerful enough to demolish a city. It would leave many survivors and refugees in it's wake, to include the aforementioned paladin and warlord. It is iconic and classic, and makes the city easily portable into any world.
Depends on the dragon, I have played in several campaigns where some of the worst dragons were very methodical, and with their lifespans would see nothing wrong with taking a year to hunt down and kill every surviving being from an attack they start on a city. This could provide a strong foe though, the dragon destroyed most of the city and is now hunting the survivors. He was slaughtering another group but now is turning his attention these refugee's way.
Smerg wrote:
Now, I have been reading the Wizard's Presents Worlds and Monsters book and the sections on the Feywild, Shadowfell, Underdark, and Underdark Feywild.
This section of text reminded me of the concept of Regio's in Ars Magica. A Regio is the concept of areas that have simultaneous regions neighbouring upon each other. Particularly magical areas can butt up against each other. A person normally can not cross the borders between these regions without some sort of guide, magic, or particular event (like longest night of the year).
This made me think that instead of thinking of a 'normal' border that the Dwarves had established the Redoubt against but instead this cross planar dimmension. This would be a secret that most people in this age would not realize (likely take a Dwarven Sage and some research to find out this history).
This would mean that deeper in the caves their might be found a Dwarven Temple that was originally established to help strengthen the resistances to things from the Underdark, Feywild Underdark, and Shadowfell. All of these 'mirror' regions could normally be reached within the wandering caves often by accident.
If we go with the earthberg idea (I just really like the concept of a mountain/hill floating in the sky :D ) we could even have the deepest cave of the mountain, with the magic the most concentrated, act as a natural planar gateway. Perhaps the dwarves built there redout here to prevent the formorians from the Feywild from crossing into our realm to aid the giants in the giant/dwarf war (whether the formorians would even be willing to have helped the giants is another matter).
Dougan Axehammer wrote:
I also had an idea regarding a magical source to bring several of the ideas together. I started by taking the idea of a coastal city possessing a similar lighthouse like on the earthberg. Powered by magic (nexus perhaps or a trapped entity similar to Final Fantasy espers), the city was a true point of light. But, like all lights, eventually they get too hot and burn out. In this case, though, it exploded, unleashing a torrent of magical energy across several countrysides, thus bringing us to the present. Now the city lies in ruins, the lighthouse is erratic and dangerous, and a redoubt in a nearby mountain valley is the last refuge for a mere handful of survivors. After that, the redoubt, an ancient dwarven structure, is used as the basis for the new city; think Helm's Deep (from Tolkein) or Thorbardin (Dragonlance setting/Dwarven Nations Trilogy.)
EDIT: I had another idea, spawned by the lighthouse idea. Perhaps the lighthouse is powered by a trapped entity. After centuries of confinement, a crack in its crystal "cage" allowed it to break free, causing a massive explosion. Now, the dragon (not necessarily red, or even chromatic, chaos perhaps), driven mad by slavery, lays waste to the surrounding countryside before departing into locations unknown, as a reminder to the survivors of their folly.
Perhaps as the crystal cage is only cracked, the entity is only able to come out periodically or at random times (slipping its bonds as it were) before being magically recalled to the crystal prison. If we use something like a fire archon as described in the article on the WotC site, I could easily see it laying siege against the city that kept it prisoner, preventing it from fighting in the war. If we say the creature can not damage the crystal itself, and the presence of other living beings near the cage dramatically increases the likelihood of it slipping free (unstable magic and an inability to fix the cage because you can not get close enough) so much the better. This also leads to a semi-permanent guardian of the old city ruins, especially if the creature is automatically pulled back into its prison if it travels to far when "free".
I like the lighthouse/floating earth idea, but I'd like to modify it a bit.
Most of the cities we have done have been coastal, so I'd like to try something a little different. Like I said previously, I imagined the area being similar to Central Pennsylvania, Ireland, or the Scottish Highlands. I wouldn't mind the tropical idea that surfaced a few posts back, but that might be an idea for the second BaCT4 - only because I was under the impression we were trying to build something that would focus on the new core rules that could fit nearly anywhere.
Instead of a lighthouse, perhaps the town that the refugees came from used the dragon as power source for some technologies that they had available in their town (i.e. street lights, arcane cannons for defense, etc.) The cracking of the power crystal was the source of a two-fold problem: 1) outside hostile forces started to become more of a threat due to the defenses of the city being weakened. Since they had relied heavily on these defenses for a long time, most of the citizens had little to no experience with fighting. 2) Eventually the dragon would break free of the crystal.
On the night of a large scale attack by a group of insert hostile humanoid here, the dragon broke free. In a strange sort of irony, the dragon's hostility was the source of their ability to safely escape. Having no regard for life, the angry dragon assaulted both the villagers and the raiders. The few refugees who managed to escape managed to do so because the insert hostile humanoids here were held at bay by the wrath of the dragon. Unfortunately, the wrath of the dragon also slaughtered most of the population of the town; some of the refugees found themselves with missing family members and loved ones.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
I was doing some more reading of the Wizard Presents World and Monsters and I was also thinking on the idea of the cave gateway and the crystal prison/cage.
I also combined that with the earlier mention of the idea of a well and a thought occured to me.
What is the Well of Worlds look like? The Well of Worlds is the name given to an artifact for planar travel and has been in DnD since at least 1e. Yet, what might this item really look like?
Then I had a further thought on the name, 'Well of Worlds'. The name makes you think of something like a well that you stick a bucket down. Names though have often not had such a litteral translation. The name 'Spear of God' could refer to a mountain, a person, a book of scripture, or a nail that was used against a god. Taking a name too literally is the traditional mistake that people make.
Maybe the cave system is really what is meant by the artifact term, 'Well of Worlds'. It is thus a place that if a person were to learn the correct paths and ways of the caves that they could litteraly gate to any plane of existence.
What does this do for the storyline of the town? I think this turns the future potential of the town into a storyline like Deep Space Nine or Sigil. It is a potential crossroad to any place in existence without having long commute distances. Given that the goal is to have chronicles centred around the town then this gives an infinite source of complications for the growing town to deal with.
First, when this resource is discovered then you are going to have to deal with the Dwarves of the Empire that abandoned the area and will now want to claim ownership.
Second, you will have a number of adventures, merchants, sages and other types moving into the town to find out more of this gateway to everything. Some will come for study and some will come to exploit this gateway.
Third, you will have creatures on the various planes learning of the site and wanting to come through from the other way. Some may be neutral in their desires, some may be benevolent, and some may want to exploit or corrupt the gateway and people that use it.
Fourth, beyond the dwarves, you will have any strong kingdoms within range of placing a claim trying to claim the town as their property.
Given all the trouble that the above would cause to various levels of order in the planes and world, it is likely that their might even be a secret god patron behind the location of the Well of Worlds and that could be a god of chaos (like the Apple of Discord).
This discovery would likely be a few years down the chronicle path.
I also might note that if we have refugees moving into the Redoubt/lighthouse then you can figure that mirror events could be occuring in the Shadowfel and Feywild. What those mirror events might look like and effect on the developing town could be another interesting angle to the story.
If we use the 'Dragon Gone Mad' idea, I think it would be interesting to use a dragon which is normally good aligned. An insane Gold Dragon ravaging the country side.
I just think it would be nice to try to use something different; give PCs (possibly once they are high enough level) a chance to fight a monster which they normally don't get to see as a monster.
The gold dragon was trapped via magic by a less than good mayor/other official of the town a long time ago. She didn't care what kind of creature she trapped; all she needed was a power source, and she figured out a way to tap into the dragon's magical energies by trapping him -similar to espers as you mentioned.
Johnny_Angel wrote:
I like the lighthouse/floating earth idea, but I'd like to modify it a bit.
Most of the cities we have done have been coastal, so I'd like to try something a little different. Like I said previously, I imagined the area being similar to Central Pennsylvania, Ireland, or the Scottish Highlands. I wouldn't mind the tropical idea that surfaced a few posts back, but that might be an idea for the second BaCT4 - only because I was under the impression we were trying to build something that would focus on the new core rules that could fit nearly anywhere.
Instead of a lighthouse, perhaps the town that the refugees came from used the dragon as power source for some technologies that they had available in their town (i.e. street lights, arcane cannons for defense, etc.) The cracking of the power crystal was the source of a two-fold problem: 1) outside hostile forces started to become more of a threat due to the defenses of the city being weakened. Since they had relied heavily on these defenses for a long time, most of the citizens had little to no experience with fighting. 2) Eventually the dragon would break free of the crystal.
On the night of a large scale attack by a group of insert hostile humanoid here, the dragon broke free. In a strange sort of irony, the dragon's hostility was the source of their ability to safely escape. Having no regard for life, the angry dragon assaulted both the villagers and the raiders. The few refugees who managed to escape managed to do so because the insert hostile humanoids here were held at bay by the wrath of the dragon. Unfortunately, the wrath of the dragon also slaughtered most of the population of the town; some of the refugees found themselves with missing family members and loved ones.
Yes, brilliant! This is exactly the type of thng I was thinking about for a ruined coastal city. It not only explains the origins of the refugees, but it also gives us two antagonists for later in the chronicles (which we can of course discuss in more detail later.) For the new city, though, I would like that to be nearby in a somewhat mountainous valley that is mostly grassland dotted with small copses. Near the top of the valley -- where the redoubt would be located -- the land is most fertile, with a flood plain large enough to support several farms, including on stream leading out of some caves behind the redoubt. This is not to say that the valley should constitute some sort of paradise, far be it; there could still be other threats looming in the hills and mountain ranges beyond, such as the aforementioned insert hostile humanoid here, as well as weather that is sure to plague mountainous valleys on regular bases (flash floods, wash outs, snow.)
P.S. You know the more I reread my posts, the more I notice how brutal I'm becoming.
Let's develop a map as we are discussing the city's location. That's one of the things ALL of the past threads have lacked, and which always lead to confusion and misunderstandings.
Let's develop a map as we are discussing the city's location. That's one of the things ALL of the past threads have lacked, and which always lead to confusion and misunderstandings.
Agreed. We could also include on the map both cities: the ruins and the new place. Then we could show the path that the survivors took, and we could add paths for any other refugees that may come. But, lets dicuss what we're doing and how we're doing it first; then we can get a better picture (although I guess orientation wouldn't matter much.)
Greetings all! I'm a bit late in coming to this thread. I'm not sure what the previous chronicles entailed or whether you're looking for other contributors, but I love this sort of thing.
I noticed you guys seem to be set on the idea of refugees in a cave complex, but I thought perhaps I might suggest another idea for defensible positions. Get out your worlds and monsters book and find the big two-page piece of the castle on the cliff. Large castles with lots of space are great for defending residents, since the populace can spread out around the walls, then in times of danger can all use the castle for refuge. The cliff provides the extra bit of protection in that an attack can't come from both sides.
If you're set on caves, it might further be interesting to put those cave complexes in the cliff. This particular cliff might house ancient tunnel complexes that are discovered during the reconstruction of the city walls. They have fresh water because of the river, and it's pretty hard to attack a cliff on a river. If the castle falls, the residents can all fit inside the cave complex, which goes far deeper than even the river, and the surface entrances can be easily blocked with rock traps.
The castle idea is good, but I think we were going with the idea of an old castle or fort that was run down and a bit crumbled.
It's not exactly a cave complex (at least I don't think.) It's just a small cave that was made into a fortified position. The main reasons for choosing the cave were because of the availability of water inside the cave, and because it was both faster and cheaper to build something as part of the cave instead of building an entire structure.
You're not too late though, and right now is just a brainstorming phase, so feel free to participate in the discussion.
I was thinking though... How would the refugees know about the cave/fort/redoubt/whatever? We could go with the idea that they just stumbled across it, but another idea could be that one of the refugees was an old soldier or historian who knew the general location. Maybe the town they were originally from was actually part of the kingdom who built the structure in the first place, but over time they didn't have a use for it anymore, so they didn't take care of it. Over the years it became mostly forgotten about because nobody ever went there.
Problems...
On a more realistic level, I was thinking that possibly a bear or some other animal might make the cave its home. That would create a lot of things for the story: 1) an ending conflict to complete the journey to the safe haven, 2) a source of food to last a few days, and 3) a seemingly minor plot point which could come back to play a part in the story. How does #3 make sense? In many stories, a character suffers some sort of injury or setback at the beginning, but it doesn't really seem to make much of a difference throughout the story. However, at some later point in the story, said character is either killed or fails at something important due to that original injury...or perhaps the character succeeds despite the injury. Either way, it's a classic story element.
I'm both orderly and selfish. I act mostly for my own benefit, but I respect and help my community - Specially when it helps me. At best, I'm loyal and dedicated; at worst, I'm elitist and shrewd.
The consensus on our site seems to be (as others have mentioned) ruins of some defensive position that were build in/around a cave. Why the ruins are there is still unclear. In order to move on to clarify and eventually map out our location (thanks Syl!) I think we should focus our brainstorming on the origin and state of affairs in the cave.
I am suggesting our first round of voting in one (1) week. Up until that time we will continue to focus our brainstorming on the cave, its origin (i.e. dwarven redoubt, natural cave, etc.) and the "state of affairs" that the cave is found in (i.e. fully abandoned, home to a bear, etc.).
To formalize this, and in the spirit of former "build a city" threads, I would like three votes in favor of my proposal to make it official. If the proposal is adopted, I will compile the ideas, post them for review, make necessary changes, and facilitate voting next week.
I am open to ideas about how this voting will be conducted. I was thinking about two rounds of voting, the first would narrow it down to two or three ideas with the most votes, and the second would be a vote on those two or three ideas, the winners of which will be our official site and its state of affairs.
If this idea floats, we should also discuss a topic for next week's brainstorming and voting to be spearheaded by another poster, to share the wealth so to speak. Also, OP privileges should be determined at the end of the open discussion thread before we dive into the 4E Build a City Thread.
In summary: Vote on my proposal, 3 votes can carry, change, or veto the suggestion. Proposal: Brainstorm about the cave, voting begins in one week.
, but that is neither here nor there.
