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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 12:22PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2008
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A cultural note for the junkers: When Junkers look at others of their kind the first thing they both look for is how artistic the others use of junk is or how practical, and eccentric, the use of junk is.
Day Above (The part of the city above ground) Junk-folk look for artistic qualities in the use of junk. They might look for rhinestones or vendor trash that is fluidly worked into the frame of the Living Junk. Some Junkers even have stories written into their pieces, such as a line from a love poem in a circle on their finger or a Ballad of Courage on their chests. (The possible equivalent of magical armor and what not if the warforged can't wear armor, or just if they want a cool/different description of their characters)
In the Day Below the Junk folk are less worried about the fancy and artistic and are more worried about what is practical for the work the Parliament has employed them to do. The junkers look for junk that can be used as shovels or to make other contraptions of an eccentric nature. These are what the Day Below Junkers look for, the oddest but best working thing around. They also have maps etched into their frames, or on pieces of parchment that are stuck to them. Some say that these maps show all the sectioned off areas of the Labyrinth so that the Living Junk know where to go to hide or to do whatever it is they do behind those walls.
Note: I write this material in definites because this is what I am using. I just put it up here so others might benefit from it.
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 2:03PM
#42
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I must say, Mostly Ghostly, this is among the most creative shameless theft I’ve seen in awhile. It’s interesting, eclectic, and moving in some wonderfully imaginative way.
I like the concept a great deal, but as you made clear in your first post, one fundamental canon must be obeyed at all cost: People act like people. I’ve had many ideas fall apart when I came to satisfying this restraint, and any attempts to skirt this canon will result in disastrous undercutting of the believability of the setting. This isn’t a criticism of the existing material, but a caution, one I feel is important to stress considering my own failures in creating cohesive settings.
So, the library:
In trying to install the library as the primary power broker of The Islands we need to give the comparatively exclusive access to some scares recourse. Knowledge seems a reasonable choice, but it also tends to spread, rapidly. Even with patrols keeping a lid on copies (as james gaines suggested) information would get out, especially if it’s freely lent.
Could it be that the library controls the mills somehow? Or at least the people think they do? If that were the case the populace would be scared of upsetting the libraries order, as a power struggle could lead to closing of the mills. And even a temporary (at best) disruption would cause mass starvation, if not extinction.
And in a world where song, poem, stories, and even name have intrinsic value, I would imagine books would carry the same, considering so much inspiration comes from readings.
edit:
Will all the ‘core’ 4e races have a place in this setting?
And
Do you have a handle on how the mills actual operate? Especially when processing intangibles, and I assume they do not conform to conservation of energy principles when processing actual matter.
Don't drink the holy-water; we don't like it when you drink the holy-water.
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 5:08PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Apr 12, 2004
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I'm sorry but all I have to say concerning your setting is:
Greyhawk: Mostly Harmless
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 6:38PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Jan 22, 2008
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Thanks, Kord's Boon, both for the compliment and for articulating what was bothering me about the way the Library works. How about this - stories are the power source of magic. The mills work by special magical processes, and thus are essentially fed stories. Some mills are special - they take other intangibles or material objects, but are not nearly as common, reliable, or useful as the ones that feed on stories.
Stories are also the base power source for aircraft and a great deal of the more advanced technology (anything not purely mechanical). I like this solution because it doesn't change the fundamental nature of people, and also provides a striking image - frantically whispering stories to an engine to fix it in mid-crash.
As before, stories can be copied or repeated, but lose their power with each successive copy. That is, the same story can be used for more than one effect, but each is less powerful for it.
I'm not sure how this will translate into game mechanics, and I'm not sure where this leaves Warlocks (a class I like), but I think it works well enough.
Also - I don't much like the "demi-humans", as elves, dwarves, halflings, etc. seem to be exactly like humans except for different hights or ear shapes and different cultures. I'm including Dragonborn as Dinosaurs, but don't plan to include elves or the others, basically because they're too human. I may use them as populations of humans with distinct cultures (possibly work in some of the cultural bonuses halflings get as profession bonuses for traders, somehow), but probably not as PC "races".
I hadn't really thought too deeply about how the mills would work. Ideas would be welcomed = ]
Also - I'm definitely using your ideas for the cultures of different groups of Junkmen, The_Fae.
Valiorin - That would make a good rumor, methinks. Maybe some skerry settlements have built their settlements on the bottoms of islands for protection from Dragons/storms/etc?
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 8:01PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2007
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Vaeliorin - That would make a good rumor, methinks. Maybe some skerry settlements have built their settlements on the bottoms of islands for protection from Dragons/storms/etc?
Works for me. I just have this weird image of people building out the bottom of the islands, especially since space is so scarce.
Still, in a world so dependent on stories (and thereby books or other writings) it seems like there should be some thought given to the level of literacy. It seems like not being able to read would be a serious hindrance in such a society (even more than in modern RL society), and that perhaps there would be some sort of fanatical religious groups that opposed writing and stories in general.
All Glory To The Inebriated One. Cheers! (Yes, I think "Cheers" or some other such toasting word would be an appropriate replacement for "Amen" as we know it in modern religion :P )
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 8:16PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2008
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I was going to write about Warlocks, but that got me thinking: Bards. The bard isn't a basic class in 4E, but they fit perfectly into this setting. They have traditionally been performers and storytellers, able to retain thousands of tales and gather new ones almost at whim. So how does this fit in? Are you going to wait til PHB2 comes out?
Maybe Warlocks have taken up part of the bards role. I unfortunately haven't played warlock, so I don't know that much about them, but working off the 4E fluff I know:
"Stories have power. Yes. Some use them for high magic, like the unkindlie wizards, some use them for power, like the tinker-mechanics, some use them for food, like you and me.
But there are others, thieves. Tricksters. Story-snipes. They steal the stories out from under you and use it against you. They say that they even trick the dark ones, and the wild ones, into selling them the tales of the world. You have to be careful."
Warlocks make pacts with outside entities for stories. The different powers give them tales for different reasons.
Infernal Warlocks bind demons and devils and take stories from them. Sometimes they take them by force, but most often the devils are happy to tell them, for they always put a seed of evil in each one. As the infernal warlock tells his stories doubts are put into the minds of good men, temptations are imbedded in the fertile minds.
Feypact warlocks do it for a different reason. Just like the stories, names have power. If you know the name of one of the fairfolk, that gives you power over it. But just the same, for every time you speak their name, you lose a little more of yourself. Fey give warlocks stories because the old stories give them power. The most powerful fey, beings like Oberon or the Unseelie Court, are known by nearly all. Feypact warlocks are the most like your traditional bard. Tricksters and jokesters. Some are traveling story tellers, some are ringleaders of bizarre circuses. But everywhere they go people remember the stories they tell.
Starpact warlocks are given horrible knowledge by the outer beings in order to drive men mad and weaken the fabric of the universe. This are most like cultists. A starpact warlock might be the madman on the street corner, or it might be the offkilter advisor to a regent, convincing them to fund horrible experiments with the fabric of the universe. These would most resemble the scholars from H.P. Lovecraft (they delve too deep just to see what there is).
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5 years ago ::
May 15, 2008 - 11:58PM
#47
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Thanks, Kord's Boon, both for the compliment and for articulating what was bothering me about the way the Library works. How about this - stories are the power source of magic. The mills work by special magical processes, and thus are essentially fed stories. Some mills are special - they take other intangibles or material objects, but are not nearly as common, reliable, or useful as the ones that feed on stories.
Stories are also the base power source for aircraft and a great deal of the more advanced technology (anything not purely mechanical). I like this solution because it doesn't change the fundamental nature of people, and also provides a striking image - frantically whispering stories to an engine to fix it in mid-crash.
Sounds good, however I do have some adjustment that might work so you can keep the original (read ‘awesome’ flavor of the mills while simultaneously asserting the library’s importance:
1)Mills are very rare and powerful devices, requiring either material (corpses) or conceptual (names, hope see below) input to operate.
2)The only well know mills are those in Day, other exist but are inefficient and unreliable
3)Even with input the mills won’t turn without encouragement: Secret and powerful stories told by profoundly experienced Librarians, gleaned directly from the surface of the mill in intricate rituals.
In essence the Librarians must act as caretakers, even if you find your own mill on a skerry you’re bound to the library to make it operate. Even then, the Librarians will need years to study it.
Being the key to the mill’s operation secures the library from political turmoil; even a momentary disruption could prove fatal to the entire society, and that’s not counting their unparalleled knowledge of the Library. It reminds me a little of Dune’s political system.
On the issue of mills I had an idea for the origins of the undead.
Imagine some great deal of time ago, a group of settlers came across an undiscovered mill on one of the skerries. When examined, the mill began to operate immediately; spilling forth a bounty rumored to have volume greater then both the Day’s mills combined. The settlers were naturally ecstatic, having a mill that needed no input, and many more refuges came to partake. It was, of course, a cruel joke; for the mill took something in secret no man can be without: hope. The settlers discovered their folly too late, and when all hope is lost…well…you take matters into your own hands.
Those who had slain themselves rose. Their souls and bodies corrupted by the mill’s influence.
Mostly Ghostly had a story to tell:
"Go to bed now, or the Hollow Men will eat you."
"Who are the Hollow Men, mama?"
"Not who - What. They were men once, but they found something terrible, out in the far Islands, and in changed 'em. It made them hollow, just shells like a dried up old beetle husk. And it made 'em hollow inside, too, so that they're always hungry, always wanting. They're never full, and they don't just eat food. They'll eat your hopes, or your fears, eat your memories and loves and even your name, and leave your mind full of spiders."
"What if they're here right now?"
"They daren't come here, boy. I'm too old and tough and mean for 'em - one of 'em once tried to eat my mind and had to spit it right back out - too much gristle.
- My Grannie, Captain of the Pirate Ship McCoy
Don't drink the holy-water; we don't like it when you drink the holy-water.
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5 years ago ::
May 16, 2008 - 3:47AM
#48
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2007
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Also - I don't much like the "demi-humans", as elves, dwarves, halflings, etc. seem to be exactly like humans except for different hights or ear shapes and different cultures. I'm including Dragonborn as Dinosaurs, but don't plan to include elves or the others, basically because they're too human. I may use them as populations of humans with distinct cultures (possibly work in some of the cultural bonuses halflings get as profession bonuses for traders, somehow), but probably not as PC "races".
Depending on how humans were created, the 'demi-humans' (isn't that a 2e term? I don't think I've used that since) could be a simply 'flavoured' version of humans (literally). Say, when a human dies the Inebriated One eats his soul (or whatever, thats probably not a great idea), he'd probably get tired of the same-tasting humans every day. So he spiced things up by making dwarves, elves, halflings, etc.
*shrugs* Just a thought.
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5 years ago ::
May 17, 2008 - 5:11AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Apr 24, 2008
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The Inebriated one doesn't need to eat souls! He distills them into spirits of course. Possibly quite literally too. This could be an explanation for ghosts: Those people who somehow escaped the Great Distillery in the Sky but were in the process of being turned into god-alcohol.
I think I will steal that idea from you Mistress, its rather interesting. Plus it gives the PCs another possible creation story to believe or disbelieve.
On the note of gods are there any other major ones beyond the Inebriated One?
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5 years ago ::
May 17, 2008 - 10:12AM
#50
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M.S. Cadaver, of the Storm-Born in the original post spoke of other gods. Ones with a far more vengeful attitude, and of creatures of enormous power that stalk the space between our ‘points-of-light’.
If we can find more of the Storm-Born (a human sect perhaps?) we might be able to Extort the names of their pantheon.
And I don’t think he was referring to ‘God’, considering I’ve been to his apartment, nice guy that God; good tea too.
Don't drink the holy-water; we don't like it when you drink the holy-water.
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