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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 12:58PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2002
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A point regarding Sigil: unlike most RL cities that eclipse it in population, Sigil is forced to be built in a very limited space. There is no horizontal expansion in a torus, and vertical expansion has its practical limits in an inwardly curved space. Basically, Sigil is a space station without the ability to add some more cogs and tubes onto it, and 250K may well be a firm limit as imposed by physics. You can, of course, just make it bigger to give it more people.
In real life, most modern towns and cities that aren't in previously uninhabited areas form on points of geographical interest. You'll notice a trend that rivers are often right in the middle of many big cities, and it's for a good reason - before industry (or magitech), rivers are both wellsprings and transportation boons. Coasts, mountainsides, trade routes, and natural resources are the other big traits that will lock down a population. When the population is low, densities will tend to be sparse as there's no reason to let others crowd you in, unless a resource is so valuable you are forced to compromise lest you lose all access. Thus, the highest-quality resources will either demonstrate the atypically great clumping we're more used to seeing, or someone with sufficient wealth or power will claim it for himself. Some stuff to keep in mind. ^_^
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 1:39PM
#42
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2007
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And well Rome itself had a population of 1 000 000 and the empire was at the apex of it's power. There was virtually no ennemy that could pose a serious threat to the empire.
Yet you could do a very good PoL setting based on the Roman Empire, just set it in one of the border provinces, or client states.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 1:52PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Jun 30, 2008
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Precisely. Think about a place like New Orleans, Orlando, or any other attraction-type place. How many permanent residents are there as opposed to how many people visit there on a daily basis?
Going back to my home town its possible during the course of the summer to see the number of people in the city double, if not triple. I wouldn't be surprised if that happened to Sigil a LOT.
I love Horseshoecrabfolk.
What I love most about them is that they seem to be the one thing that we all can agree on.
See for yourself, click here!
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 2:59PM
#44
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2004
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Yet you could do a very good PoL setting based on the Roman Empire, just set it in one of the border provinces, or client states.
Of course, but we don't talk about a PoL setting but rather a PoL zone. To truly have a PoL setting the best comparison should be in my opinion early middle age in the dark age. A world center around the lord castle and from which the hierarchy start.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 3:23PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2006
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Of course, but we don't talk about a PoL setting but rather a PoL zone. To truly have a PoL setting the best comparison should be in my opinion early middle age in the dark age. A world center around the lord castle and from which the hierarchy start.
Early Russia, where the cities are hundreds of miles apart and often war with each other; where you can travel for days without seeing another human or coming across a village; where there are wolf packs in the forests, pecheneg raiders riding across the steppe, lawless bandits in the marsh, witches in a hut with chicken legs waiting for lost princes.
Late bronze-age/early iron-age Middle East; where all the great empires are destroyed or at least weakened; where cities rise or fall in power depending on the strength of their ruler; where nomadic bands of raiders come out of the desert without warning; where seaborne raiders destroy great cities; where men made of stone live in the hills, intelligent crocodiles in the river, and ghosts haunt the desert; and where a dynasty is secure as long as it succeeds.
Three Kingdoms China; where states war and plot against one another; where families rise or fall according to their ambition or the whim of their overlord; where bandits haunt the marshes, pirates raid the coasts, nomads strike isolated villages and towns; where wicked sorcerors summon horse demons to terrify their enemies.
All you really need is an area which isn't too densely populated (any pre-industrial society probably qualifies), where central authority is weak or non-existent, where some groups oppose the status quoo, and where there's enough resources for conflict. America's West in the 19th Century could probably qualify as Points of Light. 
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling,
And took their wages, and are dead.
Playing: Mongoose Traveller
GMing: Barbarians of Lemuria
Planning: Reclaiming Neverwinter, a 4e D&D campaign
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 3:25PM
#46
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Date Joined:
May 31, 2008
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In my mind, Points of Light isn't a setting - its a time period.
This is how I like to think about it: The last great civilization, whatever it may have been, has recently (within the last century or two) collapsed and no institution was left to rule in its place. Humans, elves, dwarfs, and the other "good" creatures are in decline while orcs, goblins, dragons, and other monsters are rising in power.
Cities, towns, and villages are still around but they are decreasing in population or disappearing entirely due to famine, disease, bandits, and monsters. A town of 1500 may be small; 20 years ago it was a town of 3000; and 50 years before that it was one a network of trading villages that formed an imperial providence. Now most of the villages are abandoned or destroyed and the tiny towns that remain are remnants. You are right many are relativly defenseless - remember you are dealing with the towns that adventures have come to and are solving their problems. I like to occasionally throw in a town (or former town) that hasn't had the luxury.
Their are still populations of humans (and other player races) around - many are scattered in small villages, others have taken over banditry, gathered in small defensible homesteads or bands, or become slaves to hobgoblins, dragons, giants, or other monsters. Finally there are some major cities left, but these have problems of their own and are so concerned with survival without the imperial infrastructure that they don't have the resources to go out and "save the world"
I'll admit this system isn't sustainable; to me Points of Light seems to be about deterioration of civilization. If it continues the world as we know it will end. However, no one said this deterioration has to last forever. Sooner or later some hero (or maybe a party of heroes - hint hint) will come along and be the catalyst that pulls the world out of darkness and brings about the next great civilization. As DM you don't need to make a point of light setting that will stay in the "dark ages" forever; the world just needs to stay bad long enough for your player characters to save it.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 4:37PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Jul 30, 2002
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NYC cheats by stapling five towns together.
They must hide those staples very well. :P
-I got ran over my a squirrel the other day.
-I'm going to steal my own idea.
-My fruits of labor are not fruits... *sniff* they're vegetables. *sobs*
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 5:28PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2004
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I'll admit this system isn't sustainable; to me Points of Light seems to be about deterioration of civilization. If it continues the world as we know it will end. However, no one said this deterioration has to last forever. Sooner or later some hero (or maybe a party of heroes - hint hint) will come along and be the catalyst that pulls the world out of darkness and brings about the next great civilization. As DM you don't need to make a point of light setting that will stay in the "dark ages" forever; the world just needs to stay bad long enough for your player characters to save it.
Dynamic balance!
The system is in perpetual change. But it can survive quite a long time in itself if nothing change too much. Sure a village here and there will be wipe out by a party of orcs. But others place that prosper well will send settler here.
I agree with you still on the fact that eventually humanity (and the good races) will rebuild something and go forward. Feodalism is really quite a start to try to put order into this chaos and can become a really complex system with time.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 27, 2009 - 5:56PM
#49
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Date Joined:
Sep 24, 2005
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They must hide those staples very well. :P
They're hidden in the subways. That's why you can't see them. 
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4 years ago ::
Mar 28, 2009 - 1:00AM
#50
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They must hide those staples very well. :P
Not really. Each of New York's five boroughs is in a different county. Talk to anyone in New York sometime about where they grew up, and they'll probably name the borough, not the city itself. That's because the boroughs are basically cities unto themselves, divided in many ways including cultural and linguistic differences (the "Brooklyn accent", for example).
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