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Switch to Forum Live View A little brainstorming on Elves
5 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2008 - 8:22AM #51
breaking3po
Date Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Posts: 41

fodigg wrote:

So you're doing "proto-elves"? Elves before the split into elves/eladrin/drow?

Or am I misunderstanding?


I wouldn't say that I'm doing so, our campaign and atmosphere is something like that.

That here is a definite rift between the elves and eladrin and our timeline is somewhere way way before the typical forgotten realms era.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2008 - 10:44AM #52
Dubiosity
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 63
The Eladrin/Elf split presents some good opportunities to get away from the old tropes.

In the campaign setting I'm working on the Elves and Eladrin are at serious odds with each other due to a schism in the dogma of their shared nature god. The Eladrin believe that nature can be better worshipped in controlled and well trimmed parks and gardens, whereas the Elves want to revert everything back to its primal untainted state and some are willing to fight for that.

Eladrin: Close to the other races, technologically superior (live long and have high intelligences), self righteous in their desire to cultivate nature and make a better tomorrow.

Elves: Withdrawn from the other races. Most live with nature and are content, but some cells believe that their nature god is dieing and that something must be done to heal it, ie... throw down the false dogma of the Eladrin, disperse the peoples and allow the woods to take back the cities.

That's the gist, no spoiler version of it anyways.
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2008 - 1:29PM #53
Ra-Tiel
  • Does that make me crazy?
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2004
Posts: 1,061

Dubiosity wrote:

The Eladrin/Elf split presents some good opportunities to get away from the old tropes.

In the campaign setting I'm working on the Elves and Eladrin are at serious odds with each other due to a schism in the dogma of their shared nature god. The Eladrin believe that nature can be better worshipped in controlled and well trimmed parks and gardens, whereas the Elves want to revert everything back to its primal untainted state and some are willing to fight for that.

Eladrin: Close to the other races, technologically superior (live long and have high intelligences), self righteous in their desire to cultivate nature and make a better tomorrow.

Elves: Withdrawn from the other races. Most live with nature and are content, but some cells believe that their nature god is dieing and that something must be done to heal it, ie... throw down the false dogma of the Eladrin, disperse the peoples and allow the woods to take back the cities.

That's the gist, no spoiler version of it anyways.


Interesting. I think I like the idea. Perhaps you can drive that even further, and escalate the conflict into a war between those races. It doesn't have to be a full scale war, but inherent hostility and raids and skirmishes would suffice.

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2008 - 6:13PM #54
Book5
Date Joined: Sep 24, 2005
Posts: 465
Hey - I have "elves" in the setting I am typing up. I call them Elendi and they are green (technically plant people), but thats no never mind. They're elves.

I have elves in the skies and I have elves on what I call the Bottom Lands. The elves of the skies are your classic "holier than thou - we are the ancient race" type of elves that I am familiar with from classic D&D settings like ferune and krynn. Or the "half angel" beings of LotR.

The elves of the Bottom Lands are quite different however. They are the caretakers of a secret. The elves are not the ancient race. Their elders have access to what I call "The Pure Lands." Those Elendi that are allowed to visit the Pure Lands return with a newfound humility. Because they have seen the actual elder race - and it isn't the Elendi. These are more laid back and relaxed about everything. They greatly respect the ability of mans to maintain "civilized societies" despite their "dreadfully short" lifespans. They attribute any failures of a culture to the fact that they are rushing to accomplish that which an elf has the equivalent of a dozen lifetimes to accomplish. Instead of being superior about it - they tend to think humbly regarding how much easier is is for them compared to the Mans. Admiring their ability to learn in years what their children require decades.

I even came up with a "saying" that the Bottom Lander Elendi will use when speaking to a Mans.

"Run Mans Run - You have very little time to live your life."

Not sure if thats what you were looking for (is this "take that?" ) but its what stormed out of my brain regarding the subject.

now I read others stuff.
---> neat - heh - My Elendi are vegetarian (considering that they are plants thats kinda makes it full circle back to the moral quandary of eating meat ... of ... well I think you see what I mean - "flesh of my flesh" and all that)

I really like the "multi-sex" thing. Using a dual male system Tri-Sexual thing. Requiring two "males" (of two different types) to impregnate the female ... or perhaps .. hmm (strong biology background .... ) If you have two types of Male then you get into the question of how do you tell those two genders apart and do they have "societal roles" that differ or are they just "men" of which you require two of them to "get things done" ... on the other hand you could go to a double female system ... like ... say ... Males can impregnate certain types of females - but there is a vital element that must be given to the "mother" gender on a monthly basis (say elves with their extended lifespan also have extended gestation - 2 years) during a pregnancy to keep the baby alive. Then - both the mother and the other could have the ability to feed the infant.

OOh ... heres a better one. The mother gender is able to have but there is a third gender (the one most people would recognize as the female) that is able to feed the child during extended elves infancy (at least 5-10 years considering). Basically Male impregnates Mother. Mother carries fetus to birth. Female (or feeder? ) nurtures infant until its able to eat adult food. Three genders ... Male/Mother/Feeder.

Thats three genders without the messy (an pretty non-selective "takes two males" to get a girl pregnant thing (which is odd .. and hard to conceive of biologically). Having a "female/mother" that is then incapable of rearing the child is however allot more conceivable (pun intended). Particularly when you consider that with most tri-sexual species (mostly insects) the third is baseline female with some wonky that makes it unable to have children.

Considering insect statistics the feeders would be the vastly more common than either the males or the mothers.
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 06, 2008 - 10:20PM #55
Mostly_Ghostly
Date Joined: Jan 22, 2008
Posts: 197
I believe that those insects which are tri-sexual, rather than having a male, female, and a "feeder" instead have a male who fertilizes a females egg, who carries it for a short while then impregnates the third sex with it, which carries it to infancy and birth.

I wonder how a tri-sexual biology would affect culture?

As a side note, I've always thought it would be neat to make Elves far more alien, and less human. Perhaps they are servants of the Far Realms - they have only the appearance of humanity, while their minds are mere shells, blasted away by the Horrors from Beyond. Of course, that would make them unplayable, but still...
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 6:09AM #56
Ra-Tiel
  • Does that make me crazy?
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2004
Posts: 1,061

Mostly_Ghostly wrote:

I believe that those insects which are tri-sexual, rather than having a male, female, and a "feeder" instead have a male who fertilizes a females egg, who carries it for a short while then impregnates the third sex with it, which carries it to infancy and birth.


I've had something similar in an old setting (which is laying on ice currently).

One race (insectoids) was tri-sexual, with one gender providing the semen, one gender providing the egg, and one gender carrying the egg until hatching.

Another race (planetravelling scaled guys) were uni-sexual. They procreated by finding another of their kind, wrapping themselves up together in some sort of cocoon and then sort of "cloned" themselves. It required two people, because they would each give some of their memories and personality, as well as bodily mass to the offspring.

Mostly_Ghostly wrote:

I wonder how a tri-sexual biology would affect culture?


One can say for sure that at least the definition of "being faithful" would need to be redefined.

One option would be to extend our "male-female" relationships into "male-female-X" relationships, not having a couple but a triple staying together. It would make running a household easier, I guess.

An alternative would be that the concept of "lasting relationships" was completely unknown to such a race. They'd gather up to mate, stay together for as long as necessary to care for the offspring, and then go seperate ways again.

Mostly_Ghostly wrote:

As a side note, I've always thought it would be neat to make Elves far more alien, and less human. Perhaps they are servants of the Far Realms - they have only the appearance of humanity, while their minds are mere shells, blasted away by the Horrors from Beyond. Of course, that would make them unplayable, but still...


Not necessarily. While "Astronaut's Wife" was pretty low imho, the basic idea could perhaps be salvaged into something workable for DnD.

Perhaps the "elves" as we know them are by themselves a pretty primitive, wild, and savage race. However, once they made contact with a strange portal, and their minds were "infested" with a seed from Far away. They quickly developed into a highly advanced and sophisticated society, without knowing where they came from. No Far entity retains knowledge of where it's been before, and thus they are more or less "stranded" in the elves' bodies.

Elf babies would be "baptised" by touching them to the portal, eradicating their "elf" part and planting in a new "Far" personality without memories. With time, the wizards deducted a ritual that made the portal superfluous, and implanting the "Far Seed" into each male's semen and each female's egg.

Yeah, I'm wierd. So what? :P

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 9:53AM #57
Eldritch_Lord
Date Joined: Jul 20, 2006
Posts: 4,420

Ra-Tiel wrote:

Elf babies would be "baptised" by touching them to the portal, eradicating their "elf" part and planting in a new "Far" personality without memories. With time, the wizards deducted a ritual that made the portal superfluous, and implanting the "Far Seed" into each male's semen and each female's egg.


So then...what happens to half-elves? Do both parents need to have the Far Seed (in which case half-elves would be some sort of schizophrenic aberration, with the half-elf and Far Realm parts competing for control) or does only one parent need to have it (in which case half-elves are basically identical to elves since they have the same controlling intelligences)?

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 11:02AM #58
Ra-Tiel
  • Does that make me crazy?
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2004
Posts: 1,061

Eldritch_Lord wrote:

So then...what happens to half-elves? Do both parents need to have the Far Seed (in which case half-elves would be some sort of schizophrenic aberration, with the half-elf and Far Realm parts competing for control) or does only one parent need to have it (in which case half-elves are basically identical to elves since they have the same controlling intelligences)?


Good question. To be honest, I don't know. But that "two minds one body" things sounds cool. Although it would probably be a PITA(tm) to play.

But I had another idea. Elves are... well, elves. Eladrin, however, are elves "possessed" by Far entities. This would explain why eladrin don't need to sleep and have an inborn knack for magic, as well as that freaky racial power (not to mention their wierd eyes). :D

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5 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 11:49AM #59
Lord_Blackmoon
Date Joined: Jul 5, 2008
Posts: 1
Well, in a previous campaign of mine, the elves were very angry at the humans for exploiting their forests, so they would launch protests and even magical attacks at local villages and towns. Once they sent a magic bomb floating down river..... Eco-terrorists!:
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5 years ago  ::  Jul 07, 2008 - 1:16PM #60
Medhia_Nox
Date Joined: Jan 28, 2008
Posts: 956
I'll give this a try. I can't promise a completely original and different elf.. but I don't think you're looking for that.

Origins: The Elves were once part of the Celestial Choir. However, they became enamored with the mortal realm. When the great heavenly war transpired they were locked out from the heavenly realms. The forged for themselves the feywyld.. and nearly became lost to madness. The oldest remembered what they once were.. and it drove them insane. The Feywyld was a paradise for a time, until these mad ancient elves basically decided that the elves deserved annihilation.. so they corrupted the feywyld driving the elves/eladrin out. Another step down the evolutionary ladder.. and these "all powerful" spiritual beings.. were, for the first time, like the mortal beings they had once been so flippant about abusing and using.

Most elves, after this, drove themselves toward an austere life and away from madness. They believe that this control will one day return them to their ancient ancestry as members in the heavenly order. Only the rarest of them accept that this is the place fate needs them to be in.

My elves take life as slowly as they live it. They follow, quite closely, the mindset of Buddhist thoughts on the importance of focus. When an elf commits to a task, be it basket weaving or forging a sword, it is time to commit to that task and little else. Perhaps conversation is permissable if it is not too distracting, but any mistake made while talking would be percieved on a philsophical level as a kind of "karma" leveled against them for not having focus in their task.

This gives elves their fabled "perfection". But, it comes at a price of extremely narrow beings. Elf 1 may make the most beautiful baskets in the world.. and elf 2 might wield his sword like no other.. but, the two of them would never be able to do the other's task.

There are also times to "Celebrate" or "Sit down to eat" these, of course, aren't necissarily excelled at. During a celebration time elves would commence with whatever they thought was fun.. this "focus" on it however could devolve into something reminsicent of their time in the Feywild. Raucous acts of debauchery.. even bording on the perverse, unwelcome, and seemingly insane.

Human, Halfing, Dragonborn, Tiefling, etc. opinion on these elves: When a human encounters these elves. They are often asked to wait for hours on end for a meeting. This is because, it is not "Meeting Time" it could very well be "Bathing Time" or "Eating with Family Time" (The titles are just examples of actions of course.) There is also a set time for "Meeting Time" and when it is over.. it is over.

Dwarves: Dwarves would be more familiar with this aspect (my dwarves are different as well) of focused time, but they are far more moderate. Even to the stoic dwarves.. the elves are too rigid.. too unbending.. or, in times of celebration are borderline psychotics.

Social status is not something these elves consider at all. When a elf who has devoted his life to taking care of the stables.. meets an elf who is a noble.. the two simply act as a stableman and a lord 'ought' to act. The noble has absolutely zero disdain for the stableman.. and the stableman has zero jealousy of the lord. There is extremely little (and exceedingly disruptive) mobility between the classes.

Elves striving for the same focus will almost always come to a rivalry. Two people devoting their lives to gem cutting will want to prove who is the more focused, by proving who is the greater gem-cutter. Elves are not above being petty and many are the elves who undermine thier fellows to prove they are the most focused. Clearly, if their fellow succumbed to distraction (even death is a distraction) they were not committed enough to the task.

As adventurers: this gives rise to elven wizards/warlords/warriors/etc. often developing rivalries with fellows where, it will be understood, eventually one will prove the greater. This will usually end in the death of the other (as far as players go, this could be understood to be hundreds of years after the actual campaign if it doesn't want to be dealt with)

Elves simply do not discuss these rivalries. However, many are the elves who commit themselves to blood feuds as their goal. This has exacerbated into family feuds where one or both families is almost completely wiped out by the other. Often, a duel will decide the one on one feud before it gets out of hand.

How elves perceive other races:

Humans, halfings, etc.: These races are too short lived to understand much of anything. They're also rarely more intelligent than animals. Elves, living hundreds of years, possess large foundations of facts, knowledge, and understanding that other races simply cannot. These "animals" however are far too dangerous to simply ignore. So, much like the noble and stableman... the "elf" and "other" approach is almost universally observed. Among elves.. this is disdain.. when among other races.. it is largely aloof and parenting placation.

Dwarves: Dwarves "get it" and because of this.. elves don't trust dwarves. The race is longer lived and wiser than elves believe they should be. They have valid claims to being an older race (elves being from the Feywild experienced almost total annihilation in my campaign world do to the culture shock of the "Mortal Realm") and their civilizations have waxed and waned for millienia. While the other races largely are in awe of the elves.. the dwarves aren't impressed and this both infuriates and impresses the elves. More than a few have decided they have finally found a mortal race that can stand beside them.

On half-breeds: ALL half-elves are called humans. Only a pure elf.. is an elf and any elf who is too "humanized" is under extreme suspicion of racial mixing. This is beyond taboo. Some families have been exiled at best.. annihilated at worst. The Feywild in my world is a bit of a ulta-spiritual plane.. and the elves remember being members of this otherworldly order.. they are not mortals and expect one day to return to the feywild. They must be kept pure for that day. The Feywild, while able to be reached, is not inhabited by anything friendly.. so, the elves (and Eladrin) are exiles themselves.

-------------------------------------------------

So, is it a hundred percent different? Not even close.

But the traits that I have displayed here.. as I portray them in my campaign.. create a VERY different elf than people are used to.
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