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5 years ago ::
May 10, 2008 - 1:50PM
#21
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All I am looking for is for them to correct the half-elf pre-gen or say it is not a mistake on the sheet (and thus a mistake in design, giving a race only a +1 to other diplo checks within 10 ft? That is a far more intense error than simply forgetting to put in the racial abilities on one pregen. Either way it is a mistake). You arrogantly assume too much by accusing them of making a mistake when you are in possession of far less information about the game than they are.
It's possible that they did, but you're far too arrogant in insisting that it must be true and believing that they owe you any kind of explanation.
(And what exactly is a "mistake" about giving people standing next to you a Diplomacy bonus?)
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5 years ago ::
May 10, 2008 - 6:23PM
#22
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2007
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You arrogantly assume too much by accusing them of making a mistake when you are in possession of far less information about the game than they are.
It's possible that they did, but you're far too arrogant in insisting that it must be true and believing that they owe you any kind of explanation.
(And what exactly is a "mistake" about giving people standing next to you a Diplomacy bonus?) Not at all IMO. It is as simple as reading and playing RPGs. It is likely 90% likely they forgot or did not add the half-elf traits to the pregen, which is a mistake, that is pretty simple to understand. Not including all relivant info for a character is a mistake. Now it may have been on purpose (not enough space, made to long ago to know what the final rules for half-elves were), but it comes across as either an oversight or bad design. Coming arcoss negatively in your advert materials is a mistake.
Now, assuming this is the half-elf stats for 4th, lets play a game, of the following, pick the one 99.99% of RPG players would consider the least effective or complete (i.e. poorly designed to be equal to the others):
1) Extra trained skill, at-will power, feat and +1 to all defenses. 2) Breath weapon/encounter(e), +con to healing surges, +1 to hit and damage when bloodied 3) 7 move, shift in difficult terrain, reroll to hit(e), +1 to perception to all within 10 ft. 4) 5 Fire Resistance, +1 to hit bloodied, +1 to hit/dam(e) 5) +1 to allies within 10ft diplomacy checks 6) +1 to hit, AC and reflex, reroll enemy hit(e), +2 to AC vs AOO, +5 to saves v.s. fear. 7) teleport 5(e), trance (4 hours sleep), considered fey, +5 saves v.s. charm. 8) second wind as minor, -1 to slides/pushes and pulls, +5 saves v.s. posion.
Hmm, one of these things is not like the others (a mistake)...
Sorry for being snide, but seriously it is not too much to ask for them to release a revision of the Pregen corrected. They did it for the DDXP character for goodness sakes, they can do it for published material's pregen's as well.
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5 years ago ::
May 10, 2008 - 6:37PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2004
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You arrogantly assume too much by accusing them of making a mistake when you are in possession of far less information about the game than they are.
It's possible that they did, but you're far too arrogant in insisting that it must be true and believing that they owe you any kind of explanation.
(And what exactly is a "mistake" about giving people standing next to you a Diplomacy bonus?) It's not arrogant to be observant, it's missing way too much compared to the other races to be correct.
If it is correct as printed, you would be at a major disadvantage to play one compared to any other race or build.
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5 years ago ::
May 11, 2008 - 6:41AM
#24
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Someone on EN World mentioned that the Cleric has an extra language. It could be that buying a language costs a feat, and the half elf gets an extra feat...
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5 years ago ::
May 11, 2008 - 11:01PM
#25
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2004
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Having seen the WWGD characters... (I'm the Senior GM for it and my stuff has come in), the half-elf gets a power from another class (and the one for WWGD chose a fanastic synergised one).. until the 6th of June, let's not get too flustered and wait to see what the half-elf truely gets.
Or ask a developer directly without using any of them angry fighting words...
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5 years ago ::
May 12, 2008 - 5:48PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2007
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Having seen the WWGD characters... (I'm the Senior GM for it and my stuff has come in), the half-elf gets a power from another class (and the one for WWGD chose a fanastic synergised one).. until the 6th of June, let's not get too flustered and wait to see what the half-elf truely gets.
Or ask a developer directly without using any of them angry fighting words... How is that helpful? If your looking to run the KotS game and people are looking at the pregen characters and say "look at all of these errors (sword and shield guy's picture is him wielding axes, etc) oh my god, this half-elf sucks. Just goes to show WOTC is not up to snufff for this new add" and I have players lose interest due to horrific editing, that is a big problem. Not satified to say "oh well, lots of errors and wow their pregens are messed up, oh well, I'm sure they can get it right later."
What I would HOPE would happen is a WOTC staff who has the book, take 30 minutes of their day ONE day, and fixes the PDF's for these guys and re-releases them. Or even have an offical response of anykind on any of the 4-5 boards talking about it a lot.
In my job, allowing a prerelease with this many errors would be a disaster and we'd be all over it to satifiy the customer.
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5 years ago ::
May 13, 2008 - 11:12AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2006
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They may be debating internally whether it is worth it to mention they made mistakes and impact peoples' impression of 4th edition in general, since they are all very confident it is a superior game, (and would impact sales in that two week period before the game is officially released).
Of course, once the books come out we will notice any discrepancies, so it is best for them to make whatever supplementary changes are required. I suspect there will be some form of errata on the 20th when the module is actually released. Remember this is just a preview period, they don't expect people to really be playing at this point. They also mentioned that there will be setting adaptations for Forgotten Realms and Eberron, including extra encounters and/or characters, so they could easily release errata then.
I do think that this speculation is potentially hurting their sales (particularly preorders) though, so they really should address the community concerns ASAP.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
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5 years ago ::
May 13, 2008 - 11:50AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Feb 23, 2008
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I must be missing something...
Where is this huge list of errors that makes this product 'unnacceptable'? I only saw the whole "picture is a guy with axes and he has a sword/shield, HOW CAN WE USE THIS PRODUCT AT ALL????".
Also, why are we so sure that the half-elf has the racial bonuses that we expect? I'm clearly missing something, lol.
Don't we just have no idea what all the exact racial traits are? Isn't there a lot more to balancing racial traits than just initial stats? I thought there were racial feats that would certainly have an impact on balance, so how do we know the half-elf doesn't have some feats that make up for it?
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5 years ago ::
May 13, 2008 - 12:20PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
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Neither oversight nor error, but a deliberate decision. http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4 … tcount=104
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5 years ago ::
May 13, 2008 - 12:21PM
#30
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Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2008
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Mike Mearls posted these comments on the EnWorld sister-thread... http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t … ge=1&pp=15Message received!
A few of us in R&D saw this thread, but we completely forgot that retailers were getting early copies of KotS. Sorry! We didn't want to jump into a thread before an official release.
I'm reading through this thread now to make sure that we take care of any issues that come up in the adventure. We have some goodies going up on DDI for the adventure next week, so we'll be sure to take care of any issues when we post those.
The half-elf's bonus power was cut simply due to space restrictions. Keep in mind that, as a quick start, KotS doesn't always use the full rules. For example, the skill challenge in the adventure was slimmed down so that we could fit it and the rules around it into the encounter.
We'll address the half-elf on DDI and bundle it with the materials we're posting next week. If you're playing the adventure right now, go ahead and pick a at-will power from a different character and use it as an encounter power for the half-elf. Just go ahead and use the listed attack bonus and damage for the power you choose, though normally you'd recompute those.
Sorry for the confusion, and sorry we didn't answer this thread earlier.
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