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4 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2009 - 2:21PM
#281
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The essential point of my argument is that if the PCs never die, they never really fail, either. Because they can always try again. Unless something stops them from trying again, and again, and again, they haven't actually failed.
As for playing in the same world with the previous campaign having lasting effects or not, that's essentially irrelevant to my argument, although certainly pertinent to the particular sentence that was quoted. If you lack the desire to create a new campaign world, or the players choose to play in the old one, there are various options available to make their failure part of campaign history, and you move on. They had a lasting effect, either good or bad.
If you want your campaign world to continue, and you want to allow the players to fail, as well, you should probably avoid "Apocalypse" scenarios. Sure, have the bad guy try to take over the world, but don't set it up so that if the players fail, the world actually ends.
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Anyway, the gist: If the players know they get to try again and again at the same task/campaign baddie no matter what they do, they will likely stop caring how well they do. I've seen it happen to others, I've had it happen to me, so I know it happens. I've examined why I feel that way, and it's because I feel that my actions aren't the determining factor in success or failure, so I feel no accomplishment upon victory.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 12, 2009 - 6:59PM
#282
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2002
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Interestingly, and somewhat pertinent to the discussion, we had a game today in which everyone had fun, and only one player survived. The game was using BESM, not D&D, but death was permanent (plus it was a one shot, so dying meant that you were out completely.)
The premise was a murder mystery, with the PCs waking up after being abducted, then people start dying as we try to figure out where we are and how to get out. Very slasher/horror flick. In the end only one PC survived the killer, but everyone at the table had a blast.
Makes me wonder about the veracity of the statement that "character death is never fun."
Yes, the latest book/release that you don't like is a blatant attempt by Wizards of the Coast to make money off the fanbase. They all are. That's kinda the point of the Free Enterprise system, companies are in it to make money... Spoiler:
Show
You can't! I tried... and the next night masked men came into my house and beat me until I burned up my ranger character sheet and rolled a scout. They told me... if I ever thought of making a non-essential character that they would kill mitsy..... OH GOD THEY ARE COMING BACK AND ARE FORCING ME TO BUY HEROES OF SHADOWS! SOMEONE STOP THEM PLEASE!
Your DM is your friend. He's not trying to screw with you, or dick you around. Play your character how your character would act. Accept that your character won't always be able to do what he's best at, but also know that as a goddamn HERO, he's gonna try to do his best at what he can do.
Roleplay your goddamn character, make the decisions he would make, and roll appropriately. Everything will be fine.
But filling a post with vitriol, hate-filled comments, like "these people should be fired", swearing at us or other ambiguous members of the company - there really is no reason for that. Please share your feedback respectfully, and consider how you would share your ideas if this were a face to face conversation between real people, not faceless names on a screen.
If you see me posting in a thread about editions or Essentials (that isn't simply a rules thread or similar) remind me that I'm trying to stay away from them. (My blood pressure will thank us both.)
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4 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 10:53AM
#283
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2003
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This is starting a discussion on verisimilitude vs functionality in the rules, and IMO is completely off topic of this thread. I'd be happy to discuss it in another thread though.
No need to discuss this in another thread (unless you are so inclined), and I agree that we are getting a bit more off track than we should be.
And so long as you know that you are wrong and that I am right everything will be fine! :D
Joke! Joke! Joke!
Gygaxian is NOT a slur. Those who use it as such should be punched in the face. Repeatedly.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 11:40AM
#284
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2002
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Joke! Joke! Joke!
Aww, where's the fun in adding that part. :P
Yes, the latest book/release that you don't like is a blatant attempt by Wizards of the Coast to make money off the fanbase. They all are. That's kinda the point of the Free Enterprise system, companies are in it to make money... Spoiler:
Show
You can't! I tried... and the next night masked men came into my house and beat me until I burned up my ranger character sheet and rolled a scout. They told me... if I ever thought of making a non-essential character that they would kill mitsy..... OH GOD THEY ARE COMING BACK AND ARE FORCING ME TO BUY HEROES OF SHADOWS! SOMEONE STOP THEM PLEASE!
Your DM is your friend. He's not trying to screw with you, or dick you around. Play your character how your character would act. Accept that your character won't always be able to do what he's best at, but also know that as a goddamn HERO, he's gonna try to do his best at what he can do.
Roleplay your goddamn character, make the decisions he would make, and roll appropriately. Everything will be fine.
But filling a post with vitriol, hate-filled comments, like "these people should be fired", swearing at us or other ambiguous members of the company - there really is no reason for that. Please share your feedback respectfully, and consider how you would share your ideas if this were a face to face conversation between real people, not faceless names on a screen.
If you see me posting in a thread about editions or Essentials (that isn't simply a rules thread or similar) remind me that I'm trying to stay away from them. (My blood pressure will thank us both.)
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4 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2009 - 10:22PM
#285
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2003
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Aww, where's the fun in adding that part. :P
Because even though I am 99.9% certain that FalconGK81 would have gotten the joke (especially because while our exchanges were lively and energetic they were still respectful and friendly) there is still that 0.1% chance, and others might not see it as a joke. Better to play it safe when it comes to "personal" internet jokes.
Gygaxian is NOT a slur. Those who use it as such should be punched in the face. Repeatedly.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2009 - 5:45PM
#286
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2002
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Because even though I am 99.9% certain that FalconGK81 would have gotten the joke (especially because while our exchanges were lively and energetic they were still respectful and friendly) there is still that 0.1% chance, and others might not see it as a joke. Better to play it safe when it comes to "personal" internet jokes.
Apparently you missed the sarcasm in my post. (Hence the :P smiley.) I've been known to put paragraph long disclaimers at the end of certain posts just to make sure they're not taken wrong.
Yes, the latest book/release that you don't like is a blatant attempt by Wizards of the Coast to make money off the fanbase. They all are. That's kinda the point of the Free Enterprise system, companies are in it to make money... Spoiler:
Show
You can't! I tried... and the next night masked men came into my house and beat me until I burned up my ranger character sheet and rolled a scout. They told me... if I ever thought of making a non-essential character that they would kill mitsy..... OH GOD THEY ARE COMING BACK AND ARE FORCING ME TO BUY HEROES OF SHADOWS! SOMEONE STOP THEM PLEASE!
Your DM is your friend. He's not trying to screw with you, or dick you around. Play your character how your character would act. Accept that your character won't always be able to do what he's best at, but also know that as a goddamn HERO, he's gonna try to do his best at what he can do.
Roleplay your goddamn character, make the decisions he would make, and roll appropriately. Everything will be fine.
But filling a post with vitriol, hate-filled comments, like "these people should be fired", swearing at us or other ambiguous members of the company - there really is no reason for that. Please share your feedback respectfully, and consider how you would share your ideas if this were a face to face conversation between real people, not faceless names on a screen.
If you see me posting in a thread about editions or Essentials (that isn't simply a rules thread or similar) remind me that I'm trying to stay away from them. (My blood pressure will thank us both.)
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4 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2009 - 6:54PM
#287
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2003
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Apparently you missed the sarcasm in my post. (Hence the :P smiley.) I've been known to put paragraph long disclaimers at the end of certain posts just to make sure they're not taken wrong.
I blame 4th edition.
Gygaxian is NOT a slur. Those who use it as such should be punched in the face. Repeatedly.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2009 - 2:36PM
#288
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Date Joined:
Oct 30, 2005
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No need to discuss this in another thread (unless you are so inclined), and I agree that we are getting a bit more off track than we should be.
And so long as you know that you are wrong and that I am right everything will be fine! :D
Joke! Joke! Joke!
OMG!!! HOW DARE YOU SAY I AM WRONG AND THAT YOU ARE RIGHT! YOU ARE SO STUCK UP!!! YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON!!!!!
Srsly though, I think the topic has pretty much run its course to the point where we are in circular arguments, and any benefit that lurkers may have gained from the continued debate has long since run out.
@Scipio in regards to your BESM comment, I think that a game focused around a slasher storyline where characters die while the others try and solve the mystery is an interesting concept, and would definitely lead to a fun time to be had by all, but I don't think that is the norm of what we're discussing when we are talking about when we address death in an ongoing D&D campaign. I would hope you could agree that trying to maintain a game like that on a constant running campaign basis would maybe not be quite as fun. In fact, I think a lot of the fun you would get from a game like that is because of the contrast with more "typical" games.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2009 - 2:53PM
#289
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2003
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OMG!!! HOW DARE YOU SAY I AM WRONG AND THAT YOU ARE RIGHT! YOU ARE SO STUCK UP!!! YOU ARE A TERRIBLE PERSON!!!!!
You hurt my feelings. 
:D
Gygaxian is NOT a slur. Those who use it as such should be punched in the face. Repeatedly.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 15, 2009 - 4:54PM
#290
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Date Joined:
Jul 28, 2002
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@Scipio in regards to your BESM comment, I think that a game focused around a slasher storyline where characters die while the others try and solve the mystery is an interesting concept, and would definitely lead to a fun time to be had by all, but I don't think that is the norm of what we're discussing when we are talking about when we address death in an ongoing D&D campaign. I would hope you could agree that trying to maintain a game like that on a constant running campaign basis would maybe not be quite as fun. In fact, I think a lot of the fun you would get from a game like that is because of the contrast with more "typical" games.
I'll agree that it was unusual. While it wouldn't have worked as a typical campaign, I could see it working in a more episodic type of campaign, with the survivors from previous sessions moving into the next, along with new characters to replace those who died. (Similar to "sequels" in slasher flicks.) I'm so gonna have to write out that campaign now...
Yes, the latest book/release that you don't like is a blatant attempt by Wizards of the Coast to make money off the fanbase. They all are. That's kinda the point of the Free Enterprise system, companies are in it to make money... Spoiler:
Show
You can't! I tried... and the next night masked men came into my house and beat me until I burned up my ranger character sheet and rolled a scout. They told me... if I ever thought of making a non-essential character that they would kill mitsy..... OH GOD THEY ARE COMING BACK AND ARE FORCING ME TO BUY HEROES OF SHADOWS! SOMEONE STOP THEM PLEASE!
Your DM is your friend. He's not trying to screw with you, or dick you around. Play your character how your character would act. Accept that your character won't always be able to do what he's best at, but also know that as a goddamn HERO, he's gonna try to do his best at what he can do.
Roleplay your goddamn character, make the decisions he would make, and roll appropriately. Everything will be fine.
But filling a post with vitriol, hate-filled comments, like "these people should be fired", swearing at us or other ambiguous members of the company - there really is no reason for that. Please share your feedback respectfully, and consider how you would share your ideas if this were a face to face conversation between real people, not faceless names on a screen.
If you see me posting in a thread about editions or Essentials (that isn't simply a rules thread or similar) remind me that I'm trying to stay away from them. (My blood pressure will thank us both.)
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