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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 3:27PM
#51
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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I like the Dungeon Delve idea and have added it to the suggestion list. Nice one, Veok!
Here's a general question...
Do people prefer contests that are more about encounter design, such as the current XDMC, or contests that ask entrants to be more like game designers, like a contest that asks people to create a new magic item, class, or monster?
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 3:44PM
#52
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I'm not sure I agree with saying that "Design a Plotline" is more about encounter design. If anything, I think the difference is between abstracts and specific details. i.e, design a cult (abstract) vs. design a culTIST(specific).
That said, I like the specifics, and to answer your original question, game designers by a long shot.
The good thing about the delve idea is that it's repeatable (I hope you realize I'm referring to the concept as presented in... well... Dungeon Delve, and not some other abstraction). Would go well with every 5th "fill out this map" contest. I.e. "Fill out this map... with a delve!"
If you look past the plot and the voice acting, Metroid: Other M was an okay game. Not a great game, but an adequate one.
Not using the Metroid item collect jingle though? That, was a mistake.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 4:52PM
#53
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2007
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Personally I like the abstract ones more, tho the material that comes out of the more pointed contests tends to be more useful. I, personally, would prefer to see contests that deal with the challenges DMs face more than those of designers - but moving between those two perspectives is alright too.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 5:00PM
#54
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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Am I the only one taken aback by the optional elements? They seem so oddly distant from the past 6 competitions.
For optional element 10, is it specifically TWO feuding families/whatevers? or is it more like "two or more"?.
I'm with you on this one, I don't like elements that are required, nor do I like elements that are required but labeled as optional, someone on these forums needs a dictionary. I don't know, I love these competitions, but the "optional" requirements really seem to cramp one's creative style. And before someone comes on here crusading for the cause of Expert DM competitions, realize that that (no this is not a mistakenly repeated word) would be friendly fire, I like the Expert DM competitions, I just don't like that the adventures get pigeonholed by the "optional" requirements.
WoTC has gotten rid of the forums I came to know and love, if you think that the old Gleemax forums should be restored, add this to your signature.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 6:47PM
#55
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I'm with you on this one, I don't like elements that are required, nor do I like elements that are required but labeled as optional, someone on these forums needs a dictionary. I don't know, I love these competitions, but the "optional" requirements really seem to cramp one's creative style. And before someone comes on here crusading for the cause of Expert DM competitions, realize that that (no this is not a mistakenly repeated word) would be friendly fire, I like the Expert DM competitions, I just don't like that the adventures get pigeonholed by the "optional" requirements.
I think that's one of the things they're going for though that:
An Expert Dungeon Master can create a compelling plotline, often out of disparate elements that arise from time to time in a campaign.
They want us to take random elements and make them something.. That's one of the things the competition seems to think make a an expert DM
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 6:51PM
#56
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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someone on these forums needs a dictionary.
I'm not going to bother defending the existence of the optional elements, but the above-quoted statement was unnecessarily obnoxious, in addition to being factually wrong.
According to the dictionary, "optional" means:
"leaving something to choice" (Random House Dictionary)
"Involving an option" (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary)
"left to personal choice" (WordNet 3.0)
Since the optional elements leaves the entrant the choice of which three elements to include, the word "optional" is appropriate.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 7:49PM
#57
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- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
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'Sides that, if you don't like the way the Optional Elements "pigeonhole" the entries what about the contest theme? That pigeonholes it pretty effectively too, being able to only work with the one theme and all.
The required elements make it pretty restrictive too. It's tough to have to conform to all these rules when tipping your hand to the craft.
It would be nice to just be able to write whatever you want and get it critiqued by people who know what they're talking about... Actually, there's a place you can do that! It's the Homebrew Forum! Those people will be glad to take your ideas and critique them, more or less according to the facets used to judge these contests. You just put PEACH in the title and they're glad to help you!
These however, are contests used to judge very specific facets of your talents, one of the major ones being Creativity. That involves creating stuff within limits set by the contest judges. This helps to narrow the judging field and it gives the entrants something to shoot for.
Also, taking random elements and making a coherent story doesn't just make a Master DM. It's something that anyone should be able to do past a certain point in their education.
The optional elements this time are reflective of the elements in the first contests. Some of those entries are really good and you should peruse the archives for fun There's some good stuff there.
Lastly, I like the more abstract ideas, simply because it means less mechanical junk and more fluff. That's personally motivated though as I am still more or less completely new to 4e and fluff knows no edition.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 8:28PM
#58
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Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
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I'm not going to bother defending the existence of the optional elements, but the above-quoted statement was unnecessarily obnoxious, in addition to being factually wrong.
According to the dictionary, "optional" means:
"leaving something to choice" (Random House Dictionary)
"Involving an option" (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary)
"left to personal choice" (WordNet 3.0)
Since the optional elements leaves the entrant the choice of which three elements to include, the word "optional" is appropriate.
Damn it, you bested me and what I considered to be my superior vocabulary skills. I apologize for being this thread's troll, I thought of these more as less of a competition and more of a place to put all your ideas for something, for that same reason I felt that the optional requirements were too restrictive. I don't want to weave some yarn about having a bad day or something, I'm just apologizing and backing out of this topic with my hands in the air.
WoTC has gotten rid of the forums I came to know and love, if you think that the old Gleemax forums should be restored, add this to your signature.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 9:12PM
#59
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I think the optional elements are not creative hindrances, but rather usually creative inspiration.
Design, say, a Delve (since that was mentioned above) doesn't give you anything to work with, but "Optional Element: The Delve is inhabited exclusively by good aligned creatures" makes ones brain start turning. Can you think of why a group of PC's (assuming the PCs are good, of course) would go against such a group? What would such a group be composed of?
Humans are creatures of habit -- left to our own devices, we are more likely to return to the same successful implementations (with variations on a theme of course) than strike out at new horizons. The optional elements seek to spur your creativity (by modifying a previous dormant idea to fit, or by creating new ideas themselves), not hinder them.
That said, some aspects of the DM's toolkit respond better to optional elements than others -- frankly, I think the principal problem is trying to add them or create a plotline directly from them, not the choices for the optional elements themselves. (Which is to say, a plotline is hard enough to come up with, sans the specific minutia that must be included)
For an example of an instance where I thought the optional elements responded well to the task at hand, see XDMC #7.
If you look past the plot and the voice acting, Metroid: Other M was an okay game. Not a great game, but an adequate one.
Not using the Metroid item collect jingle though? That, was a mistake.
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4 years ago ::
Mar 17, 2009 - 10:43PM
#60
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Date Joined:
Mar 15, 2009
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Yes, I agree. They help you take a wealth of options and drop it to just a few that help clearly define what you are building. Otherwise you would end up with something that has a little of everything in it and that's just way too much.
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