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6 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2007 - 4:43AM
#241
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Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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Quote from the newest Save My Game article. Too Tough to Play...
"These are usually two-handed, meaning you can't use a shield, but you can solve that with the Monkey Grip feat -- shield in one hand, longspear or spiked chain in the other."
Have I been reading this feat wrong? I was under the impression that the Monkey Grip feat allowed you to use a larger sized weapon in the manner it was intended even though you are smaller. e.g. A large Long Sword in one hand, A large Battle Axe in one hand.
Not to use a two handed weapon one handed. Am I wrong?
No, you're not wrong. The article is. Monkey Grip does not allow you to wield a two-handed weapon with one hand, it allows you to wield a weapon one size larger than you normally could. Granted most Large versions of a weapon are mechanically identical to the two-handed versions of the weapon (i.e. a Large longsword is mechanically identical to a two-handed sword), but they are not actually the same.
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6 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2007 - 6:51AM
#242
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2005
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I wasn't sure where to post this, so I hope Jason Nelson-Brown is reading  . Anyways i just wanted to post how much I really like his column, and how he is always able to approach a problem from multiple perspectives and ideas. Anyways, keep it up !
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6 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2007 - 7:28AM
#243
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Date Joined:
Sep 18, 2002
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Quote from the newest Save My Game article. Too Tough to Play...
"These are usually two-handed, meaning you can't use a shield, but you can solve that with the Monkey Grip feat -- shield in one hand, longspear or spiked chain in the other."
Have I been reading this feat wrong? I was under the impression that the Monkey Grip feat allowed you to use a larger sized weapon in the manner it was intended even though you are smaller. e.g. A large Long Sword in one hand, A large Battle Axe in one hand.
Not to use a two handed weapon one handed. Am I wrong?
You are correct.
Note that you can sort of get around the penalties, by taking this line of reasoning:
You are a medium character. A medium longspear is indeed a two-handed weapin for you, but a small longspear is a one-handed weapon, with a -2 to hit (optional rule from the DMG). Because it's the wrong size for you, however, it also loses the reach ability. Now, Monkey Grip applied to such a weapon (wrong sized small longspear) will allow you to use one of one size larger with a -2 to hit. So, you have a -4 to hit total, and lose the reach ability (because you are treating it as a wrong sized weapon, in order to use it in one hand), but you can indeed use a longspear in one hand with Monkey Grip, if you can get your DM to buy this line of reasoning, with -4 to hit and no reach.
It's just not worth it.
The only one-handed reach weapon that I am aware of is a lance, and only when mounted.
Being mounted is, incidentally, one of the best ways to become mobile in heavy armor. It also gives you the ability to take cover behind your mount, bumping your AC further, and you take up more space (due to the horse being Large), acting as an even better cork in combat. With a lance, mounted on a horse, you threaten an area 30' across.
Monkey Grip lets you upsize your weapon by one damage die size, basically. It doesn't let you wield anything in a way you couldn't without it.
--Gelth
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6 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2007 - 7:41AM
#244
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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The only one-handed reach weapon that I am aware of is a lance, and only when mounted.
A whip is a one-handed reach weapon with a 15' reach. If your tank can get improved trip, it can be useful. Trip an opponent as he tries to run by, drop the whip and draw your melee weapon as he stands up from prone, and then you've got him in close combat.
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6 years ago ::
Feb 02, 2007 - 10:42PM
#245
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Date Joined:
Mar 21, 2001
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Not to use a two handed weapon one handed. Am I wrong?
In 3.0 the monkey grip feat allowed the use of a two handed weapon in one hand, so the author is actually less wrong in this regard than you might imagine.
A column on DMing helping a player with a question on min/maxing a character is kinda weird. My thought is that the author, after demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge on DMing, saw fit to prove he knows nothing about making a character either.
A whip is a one-handed reach weapon with a 15' reach. If your tank can get improved trip, it can be useful.
Whips do not threaten an area.
A better idea is for the tank to simply use a two handed reach weapon.
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6 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2007 - 12:31AM
#246
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Date Joined:
Jul 13, 2003
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In 3.0 the monkey grip feat allowed the use of a two handed weapon in one hand, so the author is actually less wrong in this regard than you might imagine.
That's cool. But. One would think that being less wrong in regards to version 3.0 would not necessarily be a good thing when writing a column where most players are playing the most current version of the game.
My way of thinking (which is far from perfect) would be to state rules that are current and if someone is playing an older version of the game they could pick and choose what advice is useful to them.
Otherwise, I could post advice on character generation and quote rules from 2ed. and claim to be correct in at least one regard.
A column on DMing helping a player with a question on min/maxing a character is kinda weird. My thought is that the author, after demonstrating a complete lack of knowledge on DMing, saw fit to prove he knows nothing about making a character either.
Awesome.
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6 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2007 - 8:35PM
#247
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- Forum Guide
- Hero Craftsman Gold Medalist
- Master Dungeon Master
Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2005
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Whips do not threaten an area.
Nor did I say it threatened an area. But it does have reach. So you ready an action to trip the next person to enter your reach.
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6 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2007 - 9:43PM
#248
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2003
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Honestly, I've never liked the Monkey Grip feat. It just seems stupid; "hey I have a Cloud-sword!" And this from a Final Fantasy fanboy. The only time I'd allow the feat is to allow the 3.0 version with a longspear or similar 2-handed piercing weapon. It's the only realistic application -- hoplites and other phalanx warriors used their spears 1-handed with a shield, and generally the spears were long enough that mechanically they would have reach.
Not to say that JNB isn't wrong in his article; he really needs to go by the current rules.
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6 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2007 - 9:48PM
#249
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Date Joined:
Nov 13, 2003
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You are correct.
Note that you can sort of get around the penalties, by taking this line of reasoning:
You are a medium character. A medium longspear is indeed a two-handed weapin for you, but a small longspear is a one-handed weapon, with a -2 to hit (optional rule from the DMG). Because it's the wrong size for you, however, it also loses the reach ability. Now, Monkey Grip applied to such a weapon (wrong sized small longspear) will allow you to use one of one size larger with a -2 to hit. So, you have a -4 to hit total, and lose the reach ability (because you are treating it as a wrong sized weapon, in order to use it in one hand), but you can indeed use a longspear in one hand with Monkey Grip, if you can get your DM to buy this line of reasoning, with -4 to hit and no reach.
It's just not worth it.
--Gelth
That's incorrect, actually. The SRD says nothing about losing reach if you use an inappropriately-sized reach weapon.
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6 years ago ::
Feb 03, 2007 - 9:58PM
#250
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I think one of the answers to the "tank" character in this SMG is to discuss tactics with his party members.
Being a tank is difficult if the standard party SOP is to rush forward individually on initiative order to engage (unfortunately common). The only way to really be efficient (and in MMORPGs this is how a tank works) is that the party has to plan their battle tactics around him. However, you have to understand that you have to give your party some chance to use their own abilities - if you kick open a door then stand right in the door, no one else can get in decent spells/attacks due to firing into melee, cover, etc.
Here's my suggestion. I know it is a problem to get the twitch-monkeys to do this, but when opening a door (assuming an urban/dungeon environment) - step back and make the bad guys come to you. If you can convince the rest of your party to chill a little and take the flanks, they'll realize that they can hold attacks and mow down baddies as they approach, you'll take the brunt of melee and spell attacks through the door (and they get to take the cover penalties instead of y'all) and whatever carefully laid plans they have in their home ground are negated. Have something that will convince them to come out to you (fireballs or flaming oil or the like).
In a more open field kind of situation, what you can do is ask yourself if there's a target the baddies are going after that needs protection. Then a lack of mobility isn't so bad, stick with that thing (the MacGuffin, the princess, the caravan, the mage...) Ideally the other PCs will learn to focus around you; the rogue that runs off doesn't get flanking and is likely to get cut off and ganked.
If you have a kind of group that is immune to tactics - and some are - roll another character. Or, ask your DM to crank up the danger level a bit - if the other party members aren't utilizing your abilities to soak damage, and they're not just retarded, then your group isn't being challenged sufficiently.
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