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Switch to Forum Live View PC dies at lvl 3 was this unjust.
4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 3:38PM #1
xCirrusx
Date Joined: Jul 24, 2008
Posts: 101
Okay I'm coming on here to find out whether or not my pc's just get a little to emotional when a character dies, or was this justified.

The pc's are lvl 3 but that might not be an issue in this case. They were attacked by 4 of these

The pc's are:
Psion
Cleric
Barbarian
Rogue

The barb and cleric approached the ghouls when attacked from there tombstones.

1st round.
Cleric gets paralyzed.
3/4 ghouls are hit my a energy missle from the psion and the rogue jumps out to attack, the barb now slays one.
2nd round
Cleric is COUP DE GRACE'D for 6 damage , he fails his fort save and dies.

The group then breaks into a load of dm abuse.

Was this justified, would the monster not attack the paralyzed pc, i'd assume thats the strat of the creature. Or am I as a dm not suppose to attack helpless pc's?

What's your opinion experienced dm's?
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 3:44PM #2
cezyou
Date Joined: May 20, 2008
Posts: 2,133
I think that ghouls could have a valid strat in paralyzing everyone and then eating them alive.
Feh.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 3:47PM #3
Phoenix512
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2006
Posts: 53
They're ghouls. They don't usually have intelligence to go after the able-bodied PCs if they already paralyzed another PC that's close to them. You did nothing wrong. They just mad that they got killed by a bunch of ghouls.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 3:49PM #4
JectMoors
Date Joined: Nov 27, 2008
Posts: 80
As a DM, I try not to well... try to kill pc's unless they do something stupid. this keeps me justified for killing them, as they can't really say i'm unfair for killing them when they ran straight into a room filled with powerful monsters without any actual attempt at strategy.

as for coup de grace, I don't usually do this unless the monster has nothing else to worry about, like, say, if the PC is off by himself when he's dropped to 0 hp without anyone able to help him... then I might finish him off. But, say, if the PC had an ally who could harm, or even just distract the monster in some way, then the monster would focus on the remaining PC's before going out of its way to kill a PC. once again, the PC would have to be an idiot to run off and play hero when he should be a team player instead.

That's just my two cent's worth. I feel that its fair and my players are smart enough not do these things too often.


EDIT:
As an afterthought, it should be noted that you haven't actually done anything wrong, but players don't like it when their beloved character dies. If the dice just happen to fall that way and kill the PC, then it's not your fault. PC's usually have just as good, if not better, a chance of killing a monster than the monster has of killing them. As long as the encounter was not too hard for the PC's to hope to win, there's nothing wrong with showing the players that they aren't immortal. That's what makes the game exciting.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 3:49PM #5
whitebaron
Date Joined: Aug 13, 2007
Posts: 5,772
since the cleric failed a DC 12 fortitude check and a DC 16 fortitude check, i really don't have much pity for the character.

my ghouls would not cdg, as i generally play undeads very dumb. stil, with other monsters i'd have done the exact same.
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 4:22PM #6
Noon
Date Joined: Dec 11, 2003
Posts: 681
The rules gave you the option to coup de grace. You took an option the rules give you.

Your following the rules options perfectly. And in terms of imagination, your not just throwing imagination away and attacking them. This is how you imagine ghouls (not that it matters much cause I don't play in your game, but I can see ghouls doing that too).

Your players may as well be complaining they roll low on an attack - this ghoul attack is a normal part of the rules just as much as rolling low is. THAT is how hard the game is, if they hadn't realised already.


However, if you ever tend to fudge stuff, then your boned. The only reason they should respect this move is if its following the rules. If you throw that to the wind latter, then they get to whine because hell, you don't follow any rules so why should they?
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 5:01PM #7
RyndarLocke
Date Joined: Oct 10, 2007
Posts: 580
Why did the Ghoul waste his action attacking an enemy that was already beaten is my problem?

Because the DM decided he wanted to kill the character that's why.

Sugar coat it all you want, but CDGing a PC when actual threatening PC's are still on the field of battle has no excuse. It's the same BS no matter how you say it as those Players that play CN so they can "do whatever they want."
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 5:19PM #8
Nyronus
Date Joined: Aug 4, 2008
Posts: 757

RyndarLocke wrote:

Why did the Ghoul waste his action attacking an enemy that was already beaten is my problem?

Because the DM decided he wanted to kill the character that's why.

Sugar coat it all you want, but CDGing a PC when actual threatening PC's are still on the field of battle has no excuse. It's the same BS no matter how you say it as those Players that play CN so they can "do whatever they want."


They're ghouls. They're like hyenas. One knocked a player down, and the other went for the throat. They are flesh eating monsters. If you get upset when they actually eat flesh, you are playing the wrong game.

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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 5:23PM #9
xCirrusx
Date Joined: Jul 24, 2008
Posts: 101
I'd like to thank everyone that posted here, i assumed this would be the reasonable response. The Ghoul attacked a helpless creature, due to which i believed this would be its strategy, paralyzing and devouring the corpse.

Remove the words coup de grace, and replace it with the carnivourous creature begins to rip away at your exposed neck. (Which I stated) Things become more creative, and intense.

I don't think players should ever think they are immortal, but I'm not a tpking dm.

The Ghouls themselves have 13 int, and I'm assuming that being 'undead' doesn't make a high int score useless. As in "I'm undead I'm stupid regardless of my int score."

I have an instace where the pc's died due to a stupid mistake, i'll add it after.

Please I could use everyones opinion because i don't think i'll hear the end of this from them
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4 years ago  ::  Dec 08, 2008 - 5:26PM #10
xCirrusx
Date Joined: Jul 24, 2008
Posts: 101

Nyronus wrote:

They're ghouls. They're like hyenas. One knocked a player down, and the other went for the throat. They are flesh eating monsters. If you get upset when they actually eat flesh, you are playing the wrong game.


Thankyou, my point exactly!! A cookie for you:D

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