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5 years ago ::
Aug 13, 2008 - 12:32PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Mar 31, 2008
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DM's do not get PCs. Now stop this foolish crap or stop trying to play D&D, because you are incapable of doing so otherwise.
Either you are the DM OR a PC. Not both.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 13, 2008 - 12:40PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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In any case he is not the focus of the story, but he does drive he story.
This isn't the problem. The problem is that the players will always associate the DMPC with you, regardless of what you do. Anything he does, they will see it as you doing it with full DM power. If he, therefore, tricks them and "god-modes" them into a very specific situation with a pre-determined outcome...
What he doesn't say is the only way to release her is put others in her place, so with help of my DMPC the party is locked in an enchanted tomb. They awaken years later and everything is different. Of course the DMPC will still be around, and that could lead to fun places.
... they will see it as you declaring "A Loser is You!" It looks like there's no room in your plan for the PCs to get a victory. If they do their job right, your switch to 4e will be impossible, so you effectively can't let them win. And letting the players win is sort of the basis for the game.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 10:09PM
#33
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This isn't the problem. The problem is that the players will always associate the DMPC with you, regardless of what you do. Anything he does, they will see it as you doing it with full DM power. If he, therefore, tricks them and "god-modes" them into a very specific situation with a pre-determined outcome...
... they will see it as you declaring "A Loser is You!" It looks like there's no room in your plan for the PCs to get a victory. If they do their job right, your switch to 4e will be impossible, so you effectively can't let them win. And letting the players win is sort of the basis for the game.
Oh, I understand where you're coming from. The only reasons I can get by with this in this case is:
a) my players want to switch to 4E, but want to bring their PCs with them.
b) I won't end the session with them being put asleep, it'll be, "As the Black Wizard waves his staff, blackness overwhelms you." Here are your new character sheets, "You are blinded by light bright as a sun as you wake. Dust covers the chamber, your once polished armor now shows patches of rust."
c) My DMPC won't do the actual God Mode stuff. That will be the NPC they know, who is one of the most powerful Archmages in the world. He'll just get the PCs into the right spot for the Wizard to do his thing.
Plus I've found players don't mind getting their butts kicked if they get a 2nd or 3rd shot at the kicker, and I intend to give them plenty of shots.
People tend to define the word differently, but I believe the main difference is:
Does the character receive their own share of the loot and XP?
If yes = DMPC.
If no = NPC
According to this I have a half DMPC, half NPC. Mine doesn't take XP, but does level up with the last PC in the group to do so. He does however take some of the loot, not much, just what they give him. He's kinda like the groups' lackey right now. Very young and inexperienced, and he kinda hero worships the group.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 10:22PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2008
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DMPCs sadly lead to overshadowing the real PCs and often times come off as little more than intellectual masturbation.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 10:28PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2006
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I have about 100+ DMPCs. Some fight the PCs, some work with them, some need the PCs help, and many are simply trying to get along in the world the PCs inhabit. They change things even when the PCs have never seen or heard of them.
I urge every DM to built up a massive number of these DMPCs and flesh them out as best as you can. Role-play them for all their worth and make them part of the brilliant and lush landscape the PCs play against.
Yey! for DMPCs.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 10:33PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2008
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I have about 100+ DMPCs. Some fight the PCs, some work with them, some need the PCs help, and many are simply trying to get along in the world the PCs inhabit. They change things even when the PCs have never seen or heard of them.
I urge every DM to built up a massive number of these DMPCs and flesh them out as best as you can. Role-play them for all their worth and make them part of the brilliant and lush landscape the PCs play against.
Yey! for DMPCs.
I think you are mistaken DMPCs for NPCs. NPCs are any character not controlled by a player. DMPCs are members of the adventuring party controlled by the DM.
NPCs=good
DMPCs=bad
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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 10:51PM
#37
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I'd have to say that DMPCs that are always with the party, make major decisions, or are a major focus of the story in the sense that their actions are the only thing moving the plot are bad things. DMPCs (NPCs?) that work with the party for a while, or move the story along by dying tend to be very useful.
NOTE: In regards to the last part of the "bad dmpc" description. If said character has a situation as follows, I would deem it perfectly acceptable:
DMPC is a prince who must retrieve an amulet from the heart of a volcano in order to restore peace to his broken kingdom (yeah, there's a connection there somewhere). Problem: Only members of his bloodline can touch the amulet without being consumed by its powerful magics. He, however, is by no means powerful enough to fight his way past the red dragon guarding the amulet. Thus, he enlists the help of the now-well-known PCs to aid him in his quest. He goes with them, and this is the PC's chance to play a major role in saving the kingdom. Maybe halfway through the dragon fight, the prince gets knocked out, and the players must finish the dragon and then wake the prince to finish the rite.
Something along these lines seems well within reason. The players have a major hand in the plot, but the prince is the driving factor. The players are well rewarded for their valor, and they (hopefully) feel very accomplished for being the deciding factor in the kingdom's safety. I suppose I've just described an NPC who fights with the party for a little while though :P
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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 11:24PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Apr 19, 2006
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I think you are mistaken DMPCs for NPCs. NPCs are any character not controlled by a player. DMPCs are members of the adventuring party controlled by the DM.
NPCs=good
DMPCs=bad
:P I think you might have missed the tone of my post.
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5 years ago ::
Aug 15, 2008 - 11:33PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Jun 23, 2008
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:P I think you might have missed the tone of my post.
touche 
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5 years ago ::
Aug 16, 2008 - 7:24AM
#40
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2004
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I suppose I've just described an NPC who fights with the party for a little while though :P
Agreed.
Again: if the character gets their own share of the XP/loot, that's a DMPC (and that's bad). You could have an NPC that expects suitable payment, maintains a level similar to the party, and whose contributions in combat effectively reduce the overall XP of encounters... but:
"Once you start tracking their XP - you've gone to the dark side."
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