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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 6:52AM
#11
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Tieflings were first introduced in Planescape for 2nd Ed AD&D, a gameworld I never got into (my 2nd Ed days, thankfully coming back, were focused on Ravenloft, Dragonlance, and homebrew lowmagic/lowpower (as a player... woah, I know, your brain just burned out)).
The OP of this... interesting discussion is a great example of why I no longer play 3.x and will not be playing 4.x. The vast player base expects the DM to be a somewhat competent AI with access to a D&D database in order to create a situation in which they are ammazing and get to say:
OMGWTFBBQPEWPEWPEWLAZERBEAMS!!!!!!!!oneoneoneelevenityoneone!!!
I look at the complaints about DMs and I just roll my eyes, a DM puts in a lot of work to create a campaign world. A Lot. If they want to do all the work to build a world which incorporates everything, I will support them, but if they are going to complain as a player and whine and moan about the DM not doing that (which I think, at this point for 3.0, would take about 6 to 7 years of work, assuming you work each night and all weekend), then screw em. I won't even bother commenting on specifics, because that has been handled before. This is about the over arching theme of the post:
Go play a video game.
Rosisha
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 7:12AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Mar 12, 2002
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Go play a video game.
Shouldn't it be
"Go be a DM and show them how's it supposed to be played"
:D
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 7:21AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2002
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Irrelevant
Hardly. As I noted, tossing in every new race that is pumped out by every splat book or alterna-CS is a ridiculous expectation from the players.
Because they have never been known to do anything redundant like that before. Like the "Races of" books. They definitely didn't republish a number of races in those books.
I'm not saying they don't do redundant things - trust me, been playing for decades now, am quite aware of it. But every now and again, they actually DON'T do redundant things. :D
EDIT: According to Wikipedia, Tieflings were in the 3.0 MM.
Fair enough - I hate Wikipedia, but, as Rosisha points out, it was there before in 2ed as a Planescape creation so...see my comments above on adding every race.
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 7:37AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2006
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I think I'd just like to say, if I am at home, working on setting a game up for other people to play...I'm gonna do it my way. I could be out drinking and partying instead of crunching numbers and coming up with creative ideas to wow players who tend not to even go out of their way to encounter these extra things I put into my games. I'm reasonable, and I allow a lot in my games.
When I get someone whining about what I don't allow however, I tell them if they don't like it, they can take off. Better yet, I can take off, and then there wouldn't be a game for them to throw a fit over. I tend not to care how they feel regarding my input, as they don't have much choice, and every week I've still got to do work to set up their gaming experience. Until players put cash in my hand to cater to their whims every week, its up to me to do what I happen to be comfortable with in running that game. If they want something that I know will create too much work for me, I will ban it, without hesitation.
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 7:58AM
#15
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Fair enough - I hate Wikipedia, but, as Rosisha points out, it was there before in 2ed as a Planescape creation so...see my comments above on adding every race.
While I don't trust Wikipedia as far as I can throw it (and I don't mean my computer), they are in the 3.0 under the Planetouched Entry (which is why you may have missed it).
As for the rest of the OPs issues, I quote the DMG p4, "The DM Defines the game."
I go on to read the DMG p14, "Every rule in the Players Handbook was written for a reason. That doesn't mean you can't change some rules for your own game. Rules that you change for your own game are called House Rules. Given the creativity of gamers, almost every campaign will, in time, develop its own house rules."
Since most of you issues are based on those 2 quotes in the DMG, I think you have problems with DMs who follow the DMG :D
If you don't like how a DM DMs, don't play his game, or try your own hand at it.
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 8:05AM
#16
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I am firmly of the mindset that if you would like me to DM a game, I'm gonna be in charge. I'm not a stingy DM, but I consider myself a creative one. When we had no one DMing, and everyone wanted to play, I said, "I've wanted to try an all arcane class party; everyone roll up an arcane user. No melee only." Everyone wants to play, nobody complains.
If anyone doesn't like what I decide, I invite them to DM instead. I'd be more than happy to let them be in control, and let me be a player. But if I'm DMing, my players know that Psionics and Magic Incarnum, for example, are completely discluded. If they don't like it, they can run their own game. As a DM, you should never ever have to run anything you don't enjoy.
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 8:05AM
#17
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Oh yes, if you want to give me actual cash, sure anything is negotiable. If I will get paid to spend the extra time (not doing other things) then it is far easier for this conversation to take place:
Me: "Dear, I am going to go up to the office and work on my campaign setting. I will be down in time for dinner, but then I might have to go back up."
Wife: "What? Again? We have chores to get done today."
Me: "Yes, but one of my players gave me $200 to incorporate a concept."
Wife: "Sweet! What else do they want and how much can we charge?"
Cause seriously, I have things to do, such as house work, a job, and being a husband. Those are way more important to me then the following scenario.
Me: "Honey, I'm home from work! Let's make dinner together! (yes we do this!)"
Wife: "Hey, you got an angry phone call from one of the guys who comes over, something about 'Give me tieflings, or give me death.'"
Me: "Really? I thought I had handled this at the game, and now it is taking away time with my family." *picks up phone, dials.* "Hi! Bob? It's me, Rosisha. Please don't come to my house for the game next week. I think you're style of play does not match my own or the groups. Plus I find your disrepectful attitude disturbing." *hangs up phone.* "Now, should we make lemon-pepper chicken with rice noodles, or should I break out the grill and make us some iced tea chicken?" *domestic tranquility proceeds uninterupted*
Cause, though I love the game, I love my wife a heck of a lot more, and spending hours and hours and hours and tons of cash buying each splat book, reading it through cover to cover, then incorporating it into my campaign world is just not worth it.
Make it worthwhile and we'll talk!
Rosisha
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 8:17AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Dec 15, 2005
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It sounds like what the OP wants to play is Milton Bradley's Hero Quest. Where the game is a competition between the 'DM' and the players, and all of the rules about what each can do are clear, and well defined.
You might be able to find a copy on eBay or something.
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 9:42AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Mar 24, 2007
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Hardly. As I noted, tossing in every new race that is pumped out by every splat book or alterna-CS is a ridiculous expectation from the players.
Yes, it is irrelevant. Just because it wasn't previously in the core books does not discount the fact that it is now in the core books.
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5 years ago ::
May 18, 2008 - 9:45AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Mar 24, 2007
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While I don't trust Wikipedia as far as I can throw it
A ridiculous holdover opinion from the early days of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is now no longer less trustworthy than any print media - including encyclopedias.
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