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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 10:51AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2006
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I am wondering how anyone can have an even slightly plausable world in the D&D setting without having "Magemarts". With all of these adventurers constantly finding magic items that they do not need, they are going to want to sell them to someone. And if there is any universal truth (other than death and taxes), it is that if there is money to be made someone will find a way to make it. To have an example, lets take a world with the population of Eberron (15 million). I will make the following assumptions about this world:
- 1 in 200 individuals have adventuring levels
- The average adventurer gains a level every other year (6 encounters of equal CR per year)
- There are twice as many 1st level characters as 2nd, twice as many 2nd as 4th, and so on
That leaves 75000 adventurers in this world. Using the average treasure per encounter table, that means that these adventurers are looting about 175 million gold worth of treasure each year. I will now make the following assumptions about this treasure:
- 1/2 of the Treasure is magical items
- 1/2 of the Treasure is useful to the party
These assumptions are very generous. In my experience not even 1/4 of the treasure in a random horde is useful to the party. That leaves almost 45 million gold worth of treasure that adventurers want to sell every year. That is over 20 million gold worth of potential profit per year for any entrepreneurs that can successfully operate a "Magemart". And that does not count any mages who are creating new items. Remember that a gold peice is worth roughly $100 in our currency. That means it is a $2 billion industry. And this world is much smaller than Earth (population 6 billion), so a $2 billion industry is quite large indeed. How can anyone possibly fathom that magemarts would not exist in almost every conceivable D&D campaign? I can definetly imagine there may only be 1 or 2 in the entire world because it is so difficult to protect these items from thieves, but they would still exist. There is just far too much money to be made. And this is in a world with only 15 million people (less than 1 million would even live in towns with more than 1000 people). In a world closer to the size of Earth, there would be many times more. Of course any DM can definetly make things different in their world, but I see many DMs criticizing others for having Magemarts with shopping catalogs and such in their worlds. These DMs are criticized for being lazy and not controlling their players enough. In my opinion, it is the DMs that do have Magemarts in their worlds that are taking the time to put at least a little bit of realism into their worlds. Instead of artificially limiting the opportunities that the player characters have just because a DM is too lazy to properly control the power balance of his/her campaign.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 10:59AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2003
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I am wondering how anyone can have an even slightly plausable world in the D&D setting without having "Magemarts". With all of these adventurers constantly finding magic items that they do not need, they are going to want to sell them to someone. It's been accomplished for far longer than magicmarts have been around (magicmarts on a broad scale are fairly new to the hobby).
DMs who stock dungeons with unneeded magic are just incompetent. That handles that.
eot
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:19AM
#3
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You appear to be operating under the false assumption that the rules make sense economically.
They don't.
I mean look at wall of iron, polymorph any object, make whole, create water, create undead, and animate undead. Just between these core spells, we've eliminated the labor market and turned every resource into a commodity. Throw in suggestion/charm person, and suddenly, the world doesn't make a whole lot of business sense.
Basically, D&D isn't realistic. You can try to make it more so, but ultimately, it'll always be a game. I think the best route is to just pretend it works, and make your world however you want it.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:33AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 13, 2007
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don't forget to account for all those aspiring adventurers who visited the dragon's lairs a few levels too early and left all that wonderful treasure. it isn't that there's all this influx of cash, it's that there is actually a very small amount that keeps cycling between adventuring groups who get killed and those who get lucky enough to survive to recoup the treasure of the deceased adventuring groups (only to get killed later on).
a vicious cycle indeed...
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:41AM
#5
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I'm going to go with Dugar on this one. In a world where magic exists in the first place, trying to make sense of what is essentially an abstraction to facilitate gameplay is an exercise in futility. You simply have to do what feels right for your game and your players.
In my Eberron game, I allow the players to buy whatever they can afford, but I limit the books from which they can buy. This keeps out nasty little items I've never heard of but "Surprise!" just broke my encounter all of a sudden. (I just don't have the time nor inclination to read every magic item book out there.)
But I do make a strong effort to include magic items that are actually useful for the PCs as loot. An NPC bard that just bit the dust is as likely to have a wand of cure light wounds as the PCs would. It just makes sense. I hide all sorts of little goodies in adventures that would be immediately useful to the PCs rather than go through the whole process of buying and selling. That crap is boring. I walked out on a game once when over an hour was spent shopping and haggling. I'd rather remove my gall bladder with a shrimp fork than sit through that.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:44AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2003
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But I do make a strong effort to include magic items that are actually useful for the PCs as loot. An NPC bard that just bit the dust is as likely to have a wand of cure light wounds as the PCs would. It just makes sense. I hide all sorts of little goodies in adventures that would be immediately useful to the PCs rather than go through the whole process of buying and selling. That crap is boring. That's the way it should be.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:47AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2006
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Great, Dugar, now I'm wondering if anyone's tried to construct a semi-plausible "economy" from / plot out the consequences of spells such as fabricate and wall of iron, while abandoning the assumption / determination that it resemble something familiar to us ...
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:50AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2008
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I never read the FR novels, but I read Dragon Lance.
In those books, all of the adventurers had jobs before they got together. They didn't spend five years tooling around, killing forest monsters. In Dragon Lance, there are way fewer professional adventurers than 1 in 200.
In addition, EVERY magical item they found had a purpose, utility, and backround.
The player characters are usually the center stage of the game world. The fact that the story is about them is what makes them center stage. Almost no one else is clearing dungeons and becoming war heroes, because if they were, the story would be about them.
My game world has 3 archmages between the five cities of the nation. Even if they had nothing better to do than make useless magical items, they couldn't do what you are talking about.
That, and I make it hard. Want to make a belt of epic constitution? You better boil the hearts of 20 ogres on the day of the new moon, on the solstice. The ritual takes 12 hours and if you screw it up you lose a point of constitution.
Magic items make themselves, are forged by the gods, or have awakened spirits. If they sit in the dirt and aren't very strong the magic goes away as people forget.
Not to mention, in my game, if you break a rod or staff, sunder a sword, or rip a cloak to shreads, the magic goes away.
Nothing lasts forever, and magic items get used more than any other object in a party's arsenal. They are bound to get wasted or used up.
If you try to apply dnd character generation to the world at large, what you get makes about as much sense I was I was trying to figure out in the Mass Combat thread.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:51AM
#9
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That's the way it should be. I agree. The only people who typically don't easily find an enhanced version of their weapon or armor in my campaigns are those that have gone exotic in their choices. They kind of know this going in and if I can find a reasonable excuse to include a +1 small kama or a +1 flaming spiked chain, I will do. But that plus random small consumables is all my PCs typically need buy.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 16, 2008 - 11:52AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2003
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Great, Dugar, now I'm wondering if anyone's tried to construct a semi-plausible "economy" from / plot out the consequences of spells such as fabricate and wall of iron, while abandoning the assumption / determination that it resemble something familiar to us ... Here's a couple house rules I use.
4: Fabricate can't be used to make items requiring a high degree of craftsmanship, ie. weapons, armour,...
8: Wall of Iron: The iron from this spell ceases to exist if taken from the “wall”.
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