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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 12:21PM
#41
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2006
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At the 'flaming sword' DM: Saying it just isn't there isn't a very good option IMO. Why don't you just tell the players, as a friend, that it's a bad idea to put all eggs in one basket? If they are anything near sensible they will understand and change plans.
I think it's totaly viable...
A +5 Flaming burst sword is a pretty powerful and specific item... what are the odds that a Shopkeep in (insert city here) has EXACTLY that item? Or even knows where to get it?
Obvously... the bigger and more magic-centric the country/city/shop... the more likely that they have a sword LIKE that, or know where/how one could aquire one.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 12:40PM
#42
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Keep in mind also, the maximum GP value limitations for population size. Once you get to metropolis level cities where +6 and +7 cost weapons might be available, you should be able to contract someone to make you one of those. If not, go planar.
Not to mention, and I could be remembering this wrong, somewhere in the DMG is a line that says, more or less, for anything over 2k in cost, they aren't usually available for purchase without hard looking/contracting production of said item.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 12:41PM
#43
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Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2008
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RobbyPants, I'd probably just tell them it won't work out very well and that they should take a different feat.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 12:58PM
#44
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Personally, I don't think there should be a Mail-Order Catalog of Magic Items. Items should be either a) found randomly, b) researched, sought, and won deliberately, or c) made to order. Again, that's my opinion on the matter. I suggest you strike a compromise along the lines of (b). Any magic items that the players want to have must be effectively quested for, and all party members are going to have to agree (or not agree) to pitch in on the venture. Want a potion of Cure Moderate Wounds? Ok.. that's not a major quest. Someone two towns away makes them in his garage. Want a Vorpal Sword of Orc Molesting? Well, the only one we've heard of was taken from its wielder by the tribe of 300 orcs that he assaulted, and now it lies entombed at the deepest level of their mountain warren, sometimes worn by their king to warn off usurpers. Turning their lust for powerful items into adventure hooks seems like a win-win scenario. And the rumors may have been lies ...  I suggest that you incur a logistical cost for the adventure (travel expenses, magical services, whatever) in the neighborhood of the listed value of the item. But if you do that, cheating them out of the item at the end of the adventure is not recommended.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 12:59PM
#45
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2009
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I don't even allow my players to look through the books for magic items. That leads to a level of metagaming I'm not willing to let happen in my game.
I guess I don't understand the fear of metagaming in this particular instance. I mean, you certainly wouldn't say "I don't even allow my players to look through the books for feats and class abilities. That leads to a level of metagaming I'm not willing to let happen in my game."
Like it or not, the current edition of D&D puts characters in the position of having to rely on gear nearly as much as they do on their skills, feat choices, and class abilities. Gear helps shore up weaknesses (especially for the melee characters) and allows versatility in the party, so that not every party has to be the melee/divine/thief/arcane quartet in order to survive.
I certainly am comfortable with the idea of not allowing magic shops, and indeed, I rarely use them when I run, and when I do it is mainly for scrolls and potions. However, I certainly encourage the players to peruse the books for magic items they might like to acquire because 1) it gets the players into a mindset of making future plans for their characters, and 2) it gives me plenty of ideas for new plot hooks and quests, be they solo or group.
How do you distribute gear in your game if the players are not allowed to even search for some items they would like to acquire to shore up some weaknesses or to play to their strengths?
Sincerely,
Faelar
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 1:55PM
#46
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Date Joined:
Nov 23, 2006
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It is worth noting only a few items in the MIC (Morphing property, boots of temporal acceleration, belt of battle, insect amulets, and a very short list of others) is broken.
The rest is a balancing mechanism. What keeps the beatstick from being useful? Versatility. Lack thereof in this case. Versatility comes from utility. MIC gives him said utility. Therefore, the gap between the haves and the have nots is closed by making the have nots haves.
Reading on...
Edit: Done reading. And didn't see anything else worth replying to. Way too many DMs scared of their characters being capable doesn't count. :P
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 2:10PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Feb 11, 2008
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Sunic Flames, if I let my rogue have a cloak of elven kind, he will be invisible to all human guards and he can stab them on the toilet. So if I give him one, I can't have stories that use human guards. Then I have to have super human guards.
In either case, I think super human guards suck, and I think the cloak of elven kind sucks, so I'm not letting him have one.
He is still playing a game, overcoming obsticles. I just don't want to throw away normal earth for super earth because the character had 4000 gold or whatever the stupid thing costs.
Do all sneaks with some gold get a cloak? Do all important guards then get a special monical that lets them see people using it?
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 2:15PM
#48
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Sunic Flames, if I let my rogue have a cloak of elven kind, he will be invisible to all human guards and he can stab them on the toilet. So if I give him one, I can't have stories that use human guards. Then I have to have super human guards.
In either case, I think super human guards suck, and I think the cloak of elven kind sucks, so I'm not letting him have one.
He is still playing a game, overcoming obsticles. I just don't want to throw away normal earth for super earth because the character had 4000 gold or whatever the stupid thing costs.
Do all sneaks with some gold get a cloak? Do all important guards then get a special monical that lets them see people using it?
The guards could always just maintain clear sight lines within a reasonable distance of whatever they're guarding. You can't hide without cover or concealment.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 2:20PM
#49
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Sunic Flames, if I let my rogue have a cloak of elven kind, he will be invisible to all human guards and he can stab them on the toilet. So if I give him one, I can't have stories that use human guards. Then I have to have super human guards.
In either case, I think super human guards suck, and I think the cloak of elven kind sucks, so I'm not letting him have one.
He is still playing a game, overcoming obsticles. I just don't want to throw away normal earth for super earth because the character had 4000 gold or whatever the stupid thing costs.
Do all sneaks with some gold get a cloak? Do all important guards then get a special monical that lets them see people using it?
The guards could always just maintain clear sight lines within a reasonable distance of whatever they're guarding. You can't hide without cover or concealment.
+6 stat items would either come as treasure or have to be made upon order.[/quote]
Those seem to me to be exactly what crafters would have ready ahead of time if they want profit. They are something that any adventurer who has the gold to spend would want, so if there is profit to be made in powerful items, that is probably where it is.
Custom Items would reguire the knowledge of the location of a Skilled enough Artificer.
It seems easier to me to just abstract it out, ask for the money, possibly give them a time frame until it is done, and then get on with the dungeons that have the dragons in them rather than the malls that have the magicshop.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 26, 2008 - 2:58PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Feb 29, 2008
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Regarding the availability of magic items in general:
This hinges greatly on three factors. First, how common are the people who are actually able to craft the items? +4 weapons require 12th level casters to make. If 12th level casters are rare, then so too will be +4 weapons and armor. Also you'd have to find a caster to convince them to craft the item.
The second factor is the role and prominence of adventurers in your campaign. Obviously the rarity of magic items will be affected by how many people are out there trying to get them or commissioning them. In a dangerous world where adventurers and their ilk are common, there will be a high demand for magic items, and consequently things like dedicated crafters who make a living off of adventurers will be more common.
Lastly, somewhat related to both of the above, is the general economic issue. How common is it for someone to show up with 18000 gold pieces, trying to get a +3 longsword? Do the dedicated crafters have enough capital to justify making lots of the common, cheaper items (+1 rings of protection, +1 cloaks of resistance, low level potions and wands) that will be in demand? Or are crafters forced to work on commission only, payment up front?
In the last game I played in, adventurers were fairly common, and large cities had at least a handful of mid-level spell casters (7th-11th level) more than happy to turn a profit by crafting commissioned items. The items available in shops were usually only a handful of eclectic items which previous adventurers had found and traded to the crafters.
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Regarding the magic item compendium in particular: I don't think banning entire books is ever a good idea, unless it is a system based book whose system you won't be using (examples: Psionics, Tome of Battle, etc). In all other cases, I always favor a case by case approach, whether for items, prestige classes, spells, feats, etc.
In my own games, as well as the one I most recently played in, players are trusted to not bring in anything too broken, and the DMs reserve the right to ask the player to make a change after a few sessions if some new feat/spell/etc is causing a problem.
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