Community

LCD2YOU wrote:

I try not to ban books but there have been a few. What any DM should remember is knowing that it exists and obtaining it are two very different things.

As magic items require an EXP cost, mages don't generally sit around and do nothing but make the stuff. As was pointed out any mage with a "magic shop" who has all sorts of goodies on the wall that they made is also down more than a few levels. The question then is then, "how did they get those levels in the first place?"

There is something that many DMs and players forget: those already in power. If my 15th level Mage gets enough gold to buy a Staff of Hefty Destruction, it will be known by others. Maybe they don't want it getting into others' hands so they buy it themselves from the mage shop that makes them.

Then there's the small issue of gold for magic. If players are so willing to part with gold to get nifty items like Bracers of Mighty Studliness, why should a mage be willing to accept mere coin for magic? Seems that the mage may want other "hard to find items", not mere coin.

"Oh I see, you want a Mace of Total Obliteration? Great, I can get one but first, I need some Rudy Slippers from this girl from Kansas/the first born of the Emperor of the World/a fatherly letter of heartfelt pride from Asmodeus to his daughter....."

Last there's always the more nefarious attitude of "Caveat Emptor", "Let the buyer beware". The mage who sold something for high coin and perhaps a few magic/hard to find items may have forgot to tell the buyer that the item doesn't work in the presence of undead, underground, every third day, when the users life is in danger, etc.

Is this "devious" DM stuff? Yes and no. Yes it is devious but as all those things are real possibilities that make for great RPing adventures as well.

RPing you say? Sure, just finding that one mage who has "mostly the good stuff", is a RPing adventure. Smashing one's way, saying, "Uh, we need magic items. You make them?", ain't going to cut it.

This isn't really on-topic, but I'll explain why I use magic item shops in case that helps anyone form an opinion about the OP:

I understand what you are saying here. And I realize that a magic item shop selling many different items that can cause massive destruction is impractical. These are my reasons for allowing them:

1: only about .5% of the population are adventurers. And only about 40% of those are able to use highly destructive magic. Therefore, it's not like the shops are handing out missle launchers, since such a tiny fraction of the populace can use them. It also means that the shops can easily track who buys what.

2: Divination spells exist, and adventures know that. An evil wizard isn't likely going to blow up a few buildings for sport if he knows that the kings high cleric can find out who did it with a spell or two.

3: Players like customizing their characters. That dosen't mean to give them free reign on EVERYTHING, but i think they should be able to purchase anything magic item they can afford and that I allow (which is the vast majority of magic items).

Obviously, all these require a high-magic campaign (which I obviously run). They aren't bullet-proof, I know, but they allow for enough suspension of disbelief, which is necessary for most parts of the game, anyway.

I've another point of contention here

temparus2000 wrote:

Because, to me, the game is about EVERYONE having fun. I never employ the tactic of "I'm the DM and what I say goes or I quit." I think that is a childish and irresponsible way of maintaining control. I respect my players and I view myself as a facilitator, not a tyrant.

But I really don't like that book, so in this case I went entirely against the flow. D+D is not set up to be a democracy.

Again I'm only on page 4 of the thread(busy saturdays) and I'm adding things as I go along... waiting to see how the police got involved...
1. Completely agree with you about that being an childish, irresponsible tactic.
2. Completly disagree about D&D, because well it is set up to be a democracy. Mostly cause I assume its a game you play with your friends and to me an environment of friends is pretty much always a democracy. You might win the vote or it might become like the U.S. were no one but the extremists vote, but if you truly respect them and act as a facillitator there should be some recourse for players in the event of "I dont' like that book."
If 5 friends are playing D&D and one of them "gets" (because its really a privilleged trusted position if you like dm'ing) to be dm, then there should be some social contract that all agree to before the game begins. If you are not having fun and the other 4 are then are you (by virtue of being dm) more important than the other 4? You can discuss it and maybe they players (4 of your friends by the way) understand your position, maybe only 1 but once the game stops being fun for half people quickly decide that they'd rather spend thier liesure time playing x-box or magic or something.
If you personally can't have fun as DM in the situation where everyone else wants to.... uhmm.. Play in Krynn (I give this as an anecdotal example, for example. You may want to consider stepping down.
Life on Krynn or How I surrended my (DM)Godhood once Show

Sunic_Flames wrote:

This. D&D has mid/high magic too deeply ingrained into it to extract. Unlike nearly every other system I know of, which assumes low/no magic. It's mostly just a tool for overcontrolling DMs.

+1

to the above poster. To me thats just arrogance. Anyone sitting at the table can DM (arguably and with the proper effort) your effort does not give you entittlement of the world over your friends. Frankly because its 4:1 on that idea set and if you **** them off bad enough they'll stop playing with you. Period. Social Contract, homeboy.
Further, I never said anything about accomadating ALL the players wishes.
Just find somthing you can all agree with and stick with it.
Like an initial rule of "Don't try to "break The game"!" Then you're gonna have to sit down and figure out what the break point/imbalance point is for everyone.
I think overcontrolling/uncomprimising DM's are horrible for the game personally again if you're dm'ing the hope is your doing it cause you want to hang with your friends and do this. Not because its a chore or well somebody has to do it. . . To think of your self as "God" of this world(as many dm's do) or whatever that just vanity.
As a dm I say without ego truly I'm just an aducator attempting to facilutate the contiuation of a story, so me and my friend get a chance to hang out pretending to be Orcs and elves for a few hours each week. Taking it to a level beyond that is pretty much just gonna end up in broken friendships eventually and sending people to play mmorpg's or whatever they think is a better waste of time.
If you disagree with that premise... well you and I aren't gonna agree on probbaly anything about the game from a DM~Player relationship, and I'm more than likely gonna say somethings over the next 8 posts are so that are gonna cheese you off. So, you know unless you're feeling exceptionally flexible to day feel free to click: ignore this poster.
Though really from what I've read of you so far we don't entirely disagree up until at least your "entittlement" post.
more soon
Midnight...

edit: oh and the modules discussion. I feel that shuold be handled on a case by case basis. Its just too general a thing to consider here because there's too much range. Feel free to PM me about any module, I'll be glad to assist you "Open to everybody" though...

Sunic_Flames wrote:

I had to read this one twice. The first time I thought you were arguing with me. Not because of any flaw in it to cause a misunderstanding, but because I've been pounced on a lot regarding this subject lately. See the magic mart thread and others for illustrations.

Nope we are officially comrades at arms here, Sunic...

Cranewings wrote:

Sunic Flames, if I let my rogue have a cloak of elven kind, he will be invisible to all human guards and he can stab them on the toilet. So if I give him one, I can't have stories that use human guards. Then I have to have super human guards.

Look, just because WOTC was ****ing stupid and didn't give the ftr/war more skill points and Spot and Listen as class skills, or you didn't come up with an alternate class that gets those as class skills, does not mean that you have to blame your rogue or a low-level magic item.