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5 years ago ::
Apr 18, 2008 - 10:46AM
#331
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2005
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Well said.
An open mind with a closed fist seems to be typically, the best policy to DM with. Worked for 3 of my peers (other DMs) that helped groom me as a DM, worked for quite a few others I've comingled with at Gencons or casual chit chat, and it works for me and all the groups I've enaged (DM'ed) for in 3 & 3.5 ed. But I guess I'm a product of my environment in that respect...
I am loathe to ban a book. Never had to actually when reason and DM/PC diplomacy helped to illustrate my position. Usually it was something very radical from a different campaign setting, someone wanting to cannibalize a previous edition's item/spell/etc., or an unofficial source aspect. I'll look it over, allow for convincing arguements, then make a ruling which IS FINAL. Though, in some instances, I will put things to a vote and we are beyond inter game politics, metagaming, all that juvenille bullsh-t.
But it works both ways, though I must confess, as DM, I am the final arbiter and ALL DMs must be given a degree liberty and discretion to run "their game". But you have to bear in mind that you work for the PCs, not vice versa. I like to call my gamers the loyal opposition. We accent each other and must always allow for convincing arguements, not "gimmie gimme" or organized whining. I can't stand that as it wastes time, everyones' times.
Ideally, I guess I would only recommend banning certain elements rather than the whole text. Arms and Equipment Guide is a great book, but mercurial weapons, IMO, are retarded and terribly unrealistic/ill conceived, hence their ommittance. The rest of the book is gold. I don't use psionics, but I never banned the books. Players just feel likewise I guess. Who knows. Point is, pick and choose, no blanket policies.
When a man meets a force he cannot destroy he destroys himself instead. -Marlow, "30 Days of Night"
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5 years ago ::
Apr 18, 2008 - 1:08PM
#332
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Date Joined:
Jul 29, 2002
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Wow. Just Wow. I can't believe that these players would be so childish(I'm assuming it was an older group since you mention years of DMing experience)
to: A) Make an ultimatium like that(assuming no discussion) B)to Make up a story to the cops like that(your friend should have known better than to have the stuff, but still)
I can hardly believe the cops would show up just because some random punk calls and says "there is a party here, there's drugs" , but I suppose things are different in the states the "War on Drugs" and all that.
Up here that wouldn't be responded to; hell it takes forever to get action on known drug dens.
-Move your sessions(times too?) so that doesn't happen again.
Game Issue wise, I don't get how many snarky comments the OP is getting for banning a book, I can only assume most of these posters are players and not DMs. DMing is hard work, which takes a lot of time and effort; If this book is detracting from his enjoyment he has every right to ban it. He runs the game for the players, putting in many hours of his time to prepare sessions, the least the players (and many of you detractors) can do is to throw him a fricking bone.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 18, 2008 - 9:07PM
#333
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Date Joined:
Oct 29, 2006
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ANOTHER DEVELOPMENT
So the police busted up our game. We don't use drugs at game, so the quitter did this purely out of spite. Unfortunately, one of the players, unknown to the rest of us, actually did have a bag of controlled substance in his pocket. A lack of a warrant didn't stop the cops from searching, and they found it. It wasn't much, not enough to land him in jail, but they did take him away that night. Now the busted player wants to know where the quitter lives (which I and another player do know, but won't tell him). Jeez, I created a soap opera.
Wow...
There are a lot of questions about this I would normaly ask, being that I'm working on becoming a Police Officer myself... but all of those questions would be off-topic... so I guess I'll leave em unasked. (Or I might PM you a bit later, abuot to go to bed now.)
However, I would talk your player who got busted OUT of his plan of going to the snitch's house and exacting revenge. It's not that I'm opposed to the idea in general... I sometimes think the world would be a bit simpler if people could just settle some of their differances by pounding on each other... but in THIS case... it will only go badly. The Snitch has already shown a willingness to involve police in his personal problems... so if your friend goes and beats him up, this guy WILL press charges, and your buddy will be regretful about the whole thing. So... talk him out of it if you can. Also, while I don't really care about drugs from a philisophical standpoint, they ARE, for the moment, illigal... so messing with em just isn't worth it. Remind your buddy of that also.
Now... on topic.
The players pestered you over and over for the few items you didn't think were allowable. You were already WAY more allowing of magical item selection then a lot of players (and 10x more flexable with the avalibility of magic items then *I* am in my games) so the fact that they couldn't take no for an answer on a few items is pretty petty. Also, when you removed the book from play you didn't take any items already in play out, so nobody was really effected in game by the change. So I see no problem with it at all. I belive you made the right call for your game... and they acted with poor judgement.
Opinions vary, and you'll get a lot of differing ones... but thats mine.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 18, 2008 - 11:33PM
#334
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2008
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Wow. Just Wow. I can't believe that these players would be so childish(I'm assuming it was an older group since you mention years of DMing experience)
to: A) Make an ultimatium like that(assuming no discussion) B)to Make up a story to the cops like that(your friend should have known better than to have the stuff, but still)
I can hardly believe the cops would show up just because some random punk calls and says "there is a party here, there's drugs" , but I suppose things are different in the states the "War on Drugs" and all that.
Up here that wouldn't be responded to; hell it takes forever to get action on known drug dens.
-Move your sessions(times too?) so that doesn't happen again.
Game Issue wise, I don't get how many snarky comments the OP is getting for banning a book, I can only assume most of these posters are players and not DMs. DMing is hard work, which takes a lot of time and effort; If this book is detracting from his enjoyment he has every right to ban it. He runs the game for the players, putting in many hours of his time to prepare sessions, the least the players (and many of you detractors) can do is to throw him a fricking bone.
What exactly does throw him a bone mean?
You also need to realize that many of the posters that did not agree with the OP are DM's so we all know how hard it is to balance our personal life with creating an adventure, and then challenging the party appropriately.
The man asked for the truth and we gave it to him. He may not have liked all of the answers but he came here because he knew whether it would affect his future games or not he would get the truth.
Anyone who has been on these boards for more than a day knows better than to expect sympathy when asking for an opinion on an issue.
I will tell you that I don't give it, and I don't expect it.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2008 - 11:09AM
#335
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2006
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Actually, he told them the item wasn't allowed. Repeatedly. It wasn't until he was tired of being asked about the same items, repeatedly, by the same people, that the banned the book entirely. Except for the items that had already found their way into the party's hands.
At least, that's how I understand the situation...
That is how I understand it as well. Granted, I'm sure that other people who are involved see it from a different angle, but what you just said sums up the entire situation as I see it from where I sit.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2008 - 11:15AM
#336
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2006
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I am saying that instead of taking a stand on the one item that was causing the problem he decided to be heavy handed on a book that had the item. This is where I think he made his mistake.
It was a heavy-handed decision. I'm not disputing that. And it may have been a mistake, I'm not disputing that either (that's why I made a thread to discuss it with others.)
But I notice you said "taking a stand on the one item". Just to clarify my position, it was not one item. I wouldn't ban a book because I didn't like ONE thing in it, otherwise I'd have banned the DMG, PHB, and the monster manual long ago.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2008 - 11:19AM
#337
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2006
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Ok, given what was said in the post I quoted in part here, and the developments that occurred after these guys left... I can imagine how annoying they must have gotten. The problem wasn't the book. It was not the book that needed to be banned. It was the players.
My advice is to track down the smacktard who called the cops and beat him with a frozen rack of ribs. After cooking and eating the ribs at D&D (which will make them taste all the sweeter), there will be no weapon. Also, pay for the ribs with cash, that way there is no credit card receipt showing you purchased ribs.
The "victim"'s word against yours. No weapon, no witnesses. The absolute absurdity of the story. You'll be fine.
I've read "A Lamb to the Slaughter", too.  .
I wouldn't have to track him down. I know where he lives. But i'm not going to do anything. Actually, I'm preventing anything from being done to him by not letting the busted player know where the guy lives. As others have said, it's just a game. I'm not going to let my actions have anybody get hurt over a silly game.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2008 - 11:33AM
#338
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2006
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He may not have like all of the answers but he came here because he knew whether it would affect him future games or not he would get the truth.
Anyone who has been on these boards for more than a day knows better than to expect sympathy when asking for an opinion on an issue.
I will tell you that I don't give it, and I don't expect it.
Agreed. If I want pure encouragment and support, there are many better sources of that in my life besides a bunch of strangers on a message board. (not that my wife cares too much about D&D, but she'd at least pretend to listen )
Not to suggest that I don't care what people say, mind you. It's just that I use these boards to see (and learn from) what others think about my situation, not to determine how "right" or "wrong" I am.
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5 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2008 - 11:33AM
#339
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2005
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Damn... I was just perusing these What's a DM boards but after reading the fist page of this and the last page of this I might have to read through all of it.
Oh and by the way
All I do is Dm. Further it is a lot of work, but still...
Initially, I disagree with the idea of banning a book. Especially, if the players are getting enjoyment out of using it. Again though currently I'm going to go and read this whole thread as clearly shennanigans have taken place on a grand scale.
Also, I've noticed that most Dm's I've met haven't read the Dmg/SRD 3.5 so they operate of anitquated knowledge of what the game is now v. 2nd or even "old school" D&D. There should be a "D&D doesnt' work how you think it does" thread or Article SPOT on DDI to teach mechanics to DM's who dont' understand the changes or refuse to accept them.
The problem with that of course is the attitude of som DM's like "I"VE BEEN DM'inG for XX years, I dont' need no $*$& Article or thread to teach me squat"
but then they keep finding themselves in postions like
"What book is that in? No, YOU CAN't Play that its OMFG BROKEN!"mostly cause they're ignorant to any actual power scale of how 3.5 should work.
Now not to imply that there isn't anything broken anywhere, however those thing are mostly in the "Campaign smashers" thread over on the TO boards.
Till later,
Midnight...
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5 years ago ::
Apr 19, 2008 - 11:45AM
#340
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2006
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I can hardly believe the cops would show up just because some random punk calls and says "there is a party here, there's drugs" , but I suppose things are different in the states the "War on Drugs" and all that.
Up here that wouldn't be responded to; hell it takes forever to get action on known drug dens.
-Move your sessions(times too?) so that doesn't happen again.
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Yeah, believe it. It sure can happen, especially in a small town (I actually live in Chicago, where the cops have plently of better things to do, but we meet in the DeKalb area,a small farming/ college town, and due to the recent tragedy at the college, cops are cracking down on pretty much everything in that area).
We aren't moving the game site yet, it's the mid-point of where we all live and it would be a MAJOR pain to move it pretty much anywhere. But I've sent the "snitch" (as you guys have dubbed him) an E-mail, saying that his action was very innappropriate and immature, and that I ecpect no such thing to happen again in the future. (for those who are wondering, this isn't some punk kid, he's in his mid-20's and has a family). We'ew gaming again today (saturday) from 3-8, so I guess we'll see what happens.
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