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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 5:10PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2006
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I recently banned the Magic Item Compendium from my campaign. I allowed it for several months, but as the players acquired more and more gold, and are buying more items, I find some of the items in it to be broken at various levels, from "a bit" to "severely."
I won't go into details about which ones, since I know that the definition of "broken" varies from DM to DM. The important thing is that I thought of them as broken.
For a while, I just had the rule where I needed to approve each item from the book, but that started to take too much time. I had hoped that the players (all of whom are experienced and who never played in a campign since the book came out) would be able to filter out the broken items themselves (they know my DM style pretty well). But no, if something seemed too good to be true, or too good to be that cheap, they wanted it. I got tired of being bogged down with "what about this? that? this?" and just banned the whole book.
Now, I'm not asking "CAN I do this?". I know I CAN. But if everyone likes the book, should I? At what point should my personal discrepancy for "broken" be forced against what the players want? Have you done anything like this, or had it done to you? How did it turn out?
I will make a note that all the players are mature. Nobody's threatining to quit or any such nonsense. This isn't a "save my campaign" type deal.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 5:16PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2006
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I personally allow it, even though some pretty nice and effective ones are in there, because I want my players to have fun. If they win easily I'll ajust my challenge.
My friend, who is a pretty experienced DM doesn't agree with me on this though and he only allows DMG items on sale. He likes the compendium, but only gives the items away in loot and as special items. This also works pretty well.
However you want to use the book, don't complain about it. You are the DM, you are in charge.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 5:29PM
#3
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I allowed it for my last campaign and quickly learned my lesson. It's not allowed in any of my current or future campaigns. There are too many items that cost next to nothing that, in my opinion, take away a good number of challenges. While a good DM can make a challenge suitable to even a PC weighted down with magic items, the line, "Oh, I have such and such which allows me to do such and such x number of times per day," got old really fast.
With judicious use of this book, any class can basically plug their holes with exactly the right item for very little gold and often do the work of other classes for them. At one point, I asked one of the PCs, "Why do you even have the rest of the party travelling with you if you can do everything yourself?"
While I'm sure the DMG has plenty of "broken" items as well, I certainly find there to be more of them in the MIC, at least in regard to my campaign.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 6:14PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2007
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If you don't want them to randomly pick things you can ban it to them. Then you go through and decide what you want to be available and sell stuff to them. You decide what items are available and how much they cost. That's they way every DM I've ever played with has done it.
Because you like something, it does not mean it is good.
Because you dislike something, it does not mean it is bad.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it everyone's opinion.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it truth.
Because it is your opinion, it does not make it the general consensus.
Whatever side you want to take, at least remember these things.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 6:33PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Oct 21, 2007
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I recently banned the Magic Item Compendium from my campaign. I allowed it for several months, but as the players acquired more and more gold, and are buying more items, I find some of the items in it to be broken at various levels, from "a bit" to "severely."
For a while, I just had the rule where I needed to approve each item from the book, but that started to take too much time. I had hoped that the players (all of whom are experienced and who never played in a campign since the book came out) would be able to filter out the broken items themselves (they know my DM style pretty well). But no, if something seemed too good to be true, or too good to be that cheap, they wanted it. I got tired of being bogged down with "what about this? that? this?" and just banned the whole book.
Now, I'm not asking "CAN I do this?". I know I CAN. But if everyone likes the book, should I? At what point should my personal discrepancy for "broken" be forced against what the players want? Have you done anything like this, or had it done to you? How did it turn out?
How are the players getting the items? Are they thumbing through the book, checking the amount of gold their characters have and just adding the item to their sheet and subtracting the gold if they can afford it?
Or do you have a system in place whereby they gain the items by going to a "magic merchant / crafter" or whatever and having the item created, possibly with some added costs or with some items simply unavailable or unable to be safely crafted?
Maybe there might be a way for you to put the brakes on things by having more NPC involvement (and therefore your de facto approval or disapproval on an item to item basis) when a character wants a certain magic item.
As far as what we have done in our campaign, any character can get any item of +3 or above from the approved books only with DM participation - - players just let the DM know what they want to get for their character and the DM comes back to them with a cost and any edits or adjustments. He does so through an NPC from the Arcanists' Guild, which handles acquisitions and crafting of magical gear in the characters' home city in our campaign. It is a decent system and keeps it all "in-game" as well. Sometimes players grumble a little about having things unavailable immediately, or when some items have some minor tweaks to them, but by and large, it works for us.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 7:20PM
#6
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I recently banned the Magic Item Compendium from my campaign. I allowed it for several months, but as the players acquired more and more gold, and are buying more items, I find some of the items in it to be broken at various levels, from "a bit" to "severely."
I won't go into details about which ones, since I know that the definition of "broken" varies from DM to DM. The important thing is that I thought of them as broken.
For a while, I just had the rule where I needed to approve each item from the book, but that started to take too much time. I had hoped that the players (all of whom are experienced and who never played in a campign since the book came out) would be able to filter out the broken items themselves (they know my DM style pretty well). But no, if something seemed too good to be true, or too good to be that cheap, they wanted it. I got tired of being bogged down with "what about this? that? this?" and just banned the whole book.
Now, I'm not asking "CAN I do this?". I know I CAN. But if everyone likes the book, should I? At what point should my personal discrepancy for "broken" be forced against what the players want? Have you done anything like this, or had it done to you? How did it turn out?
I will make a note that all the players are mature. Nobody's threatining to quit or any such nonsense. This isn't a "save my campaign" type deal.
Don't ban the book because a few of the pieces are broken. Consider what allowed the Broken things to get in the game. If its that you allowed all the items to be got at a Magic Items R Us, don't blame the book because in that case you caused the problem. If you gave out a bad item or 2 as treasure that is probably not knowing the book, most DMs make mistakes like this all the time. Before banning the book outright you should really make sure all the items you are having problems with are being used correctly. To often have I heard DMs blame a book because they don't run one thing right. I taught several previous DMs of mine that if you run the pieces all correctly you rarely have a balance problem unless the Player reaches for to much or is being to stubborn.
The one thing I suggest you do before you ban the book outright, post a list of the items and what they did that caused the problems. Give the other posters here a chance to either address the problems or know what problems said items can cause. We don't know everything but we can probably fix most of your problems if we had some info. Besides most items aren't as breakable as an item from the DMG called "Candle of Invocation'.
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 7:46PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Feb 14, 2008
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What is the most broken type of candle anyways? In alignment, I mean?
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 8:00PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2006
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I use it by requiring them to ask me about specific items, and then I may adjust prices or availability.
I don't know that any items in particular are "broken", but a lot certainly change the dynamics of the game. While I might run a "high magic" campaign, I am not interested in running a "magic-saturated" campaign where everyone has something in every slot, and often with multiple effects (using the magic stacking effects rules).
I would prefer they keep their magic items simple as well -- because I've seen (just by my own use of the book as a player in another campaign) that once you start collecting all those per-day, charged, special-situation items it can get very complicated and tough to remember what each thing does, and when, and how often, and how much. Specifically the Wondrous Items.
I like most of the items, but only in moderation. So, they can't just buy most of those things in stores, though occasionally I put one in as loot.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19670890/Keep_on_the_Shadowfell_Character_Errata
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 8:07PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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I generally don't ban the MIC or any other items right off. But I do tell my players when they head to town to shop "we can handle this 1 of 3 ways."
1- We can simply say anything under 1k is avaliable and on display for sale. Easy to find and buy. Items sell for 1/2 listed value. Anything else needs custom crafting, ill let you know how long it will take, it is available.
2- I can roleplay each purchase and each shopkeep. Keep in mind anything under 1k is on display, anything else is probably going to take time for custom crafting. Any item under 2k sells for 1/2 value, anything over and we can roleplay it out. (will probably be quite near 1/2 value)
3- I can roleplay each shopkeep, and then you can do all the purchasing and selling on your own. Items for 1k or less are on display, everything else needs crafting. Items sell for 1/2 listed value.
For any item over 1k, I tell the players "Not only do you guys not know what this will cost from this given shopkeep, but he has tons of variables, show me the item in the book, and I will let you know."
I them look the item over, if it is something I don't want in my game, I simply say "he can not make this and does not know who could." If it is an item I am fine with, I have them roll charisma checks. Depending on their roll it usually takes Xd4 days. X= result of the check. (Cost of the item can also modify the time required. Usually +1 day for every 50k)
DC >1= 10
DC 1= 6
DC 5= 3
DC 10= 2
DC 15= 1
DC 20= .5 (or just d2)
DC 30+= Next morning gaurenteed.
No auto success or fail, no take 10 or 20.
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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5 years ago ::
Mar 25, 2008 - 8:11PM
#10
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2008
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I personally have not banned it and my goal when I am a PC is to plug all my holes. I see no reason in a game or real life to have a weakness.
As a DM I can find a weakness in any build. The guy who is a good archer cant normally fight to well in melee. Caster, even clerics don't fight so well or avoid getting hit without buff time.
To the OP: Instead of banning the book how about saying why you are having problems with specific characters. Some of the more experienced players/DM's may be able to help you out strategy-wise.
After edit: That persist idea can be countered with dispel magic.
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