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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 3:56PM
#1
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- The legacy of the 5-7 must live on!
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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After the last day, I am ready to kick this guy - he keeps arguing that the 5-7 deals just as much damage as the Desert Eagle, or any other 50 caliber handgun.
His reasoning?
"I can be precise with a smaller caliber"
"I can shoot precisely all day with a 5-7, more than a Desert Eagle from the hip"
"HP is an abstract concept anyways"
Oh lord...
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 4:52PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 15, 2002
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Step one point to page
Step 2 Say thats the damage it does according to the book
Step 3 if you want to use those statistics, ALL of them good and bad (point to the 57) and CALL it a dessert eagle, thats fine. It may be unrealistic, but the designers wanted each gun to have a niche
Step 4 the game is designed for balance over realism. If the player wants to go with realism, have the next adventure feature someone with a rocket launcher doing 4d20 damage.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 6:44PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2006
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Are you the DM?
If so, find the page that has the "DM is always right" rule, and show him that. Or show him the Ftlbs of a 5.7 versus that of a .50 AE or a .44 Magnum, as Ftlbs are the way to tell how much damage something does, except for with shotguns, I think somebody that made the game stats didn't like shotguns.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 8:25PM
#4
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- The legacy of the 5-7 must live on!
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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I will do that eventually, but I really want to make clear that my reason for sticking with this house-rule makes sense and is founded in reality (where the ammunition types were based off of)
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 8:46PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 23, 2006
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Point out to him that if precision of shooting is what mattered, a .22 would do more than a 5.7, same with shooting all day.
The HP is an abstract concept one could be used for an argument either way, if he continues with that say "You grazed your knee, you are down to 1hp. Hey, it is an abstract concept."
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6 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2007 - 10:17PM
#6
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Are you the DM?
If so, find the page that has the "DM is always right" rule, and show him that. Or show him the Ftlbs of a 5.7 versus that of a .50 AE or a .44 Magnum, as Ftlbs are the way to tell how much damage something does, except for with shotguns, I think somebody that made the game stats didn't like shotguns.
No, tissue damage determines how much damage a round does. Energy plays a relatively minor role.
In response to the OP, simply quote the RCMP testing report that showed that the 5.7mm round failed to penetrate deep enough and cause enough tissue damage to be considered effective for use by their officers.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 12:41AM
#7
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- Has stated the unstatable
Date Joined:
Jun 12, 2005
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I concur with Coyote, but I would have said Ability to do tissue damage determines the damage of a round, Energy can play a relatively minor roll. A hypervelocity needle would do less tissue damage (& exit taking 80% of its energy with it) than a 357mag that had a slight fraction of the needle kinetic energy. Folks dont take the 5.7 to knock over steel rams at 200, an exercise of precision mag revolvers do ok at. Folks dont hunt deer with the 5.7, unless of course the whitetails are bundled up in Kevlar. Folks also dont use the 5.7 for Pdogs where a .223 does just gobs better. Tell your friend they have already wildcatted a .17x28 , the .17cal neckdown of a 5.7FN. If a bullet far below .223 is 2d8 because it is small, then the .17 cal would be 2d10 because it is even smaller! I just dont see what all the fuss is about with these two guns, since the 1911 45acp is plainly better than either (or both) 
"Ok Jimmy, I'll hold the grenade pin while you put the mayonaise on the weasle"
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 1:22AM
#8
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- The legacy of the 5-7 must live on!
Date Joined:
Aug 27, 2007
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Actually, the guns themselves aren't the issue here, but the caliber, as that is what I was focusing on to make the point.
As for a weapon choice, however: why would ANYONE take the Desert Eagle, which is Medium, and holds 7-8 rounds, when they can get the Five-seveN, which is Small and holds TWENTY rounds? (that was another argument I made as to how the latter is unbalanced)
It looks like he's not willing to be in the game.
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 3:02AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Nov 10, 2003
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6 years ago ::
Sep 09, 2007 - 3:28AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 23, 2003
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It looks like he's not willing to be in the game.
What a puss.
You don't need a ***** like that interfering with your regular gaming session anyway. Count yourself lucky! Seriously.
From MY standpoint, I just use the gun stats as is, broken and all. I recognize that the 5-7 is unrealistically statted, but I figure that if PC's can use them so can NPCs. I regularly use my PCs tactics and strategies against them.
But that's just me.
What a puss.
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