neamtzu_rau]1. The M1A1 Abram tanks will find themselves blocked, yes, blocked by the roman limes. Caesar's ditches will slow the american advance to a hault.
2. Then , by deploying his hipaspides closer to the blocked tanks, Caesar can start taking them out one by one, using tar and greek-fire.
3. Further use of flaming arows against the 101 Airborne Division marines will prove itself of greater importance on a flat terrain, where the marines will find virtually no cover, ending up beeing pinned down by a halle of arrows.
4. To counter the enemy's mortar and heavy artilery, Caesar would sent his Heavy Cavarly upon them, slashing their crews in an instant.
5. Apache helicopters watching the area will find it dificult to take out their targets, due to the fact that the battle is already engaged by romans and the americans soldiers are virtually fighting close combat, in wich the legionaries will prevail, sooner or later.
6. With the machinegun bunkers of the American Army, Caesar can only sit back and enjoy the show as his balistae and catapults blast the entranchments apart.
7. The American Comander is taken prisoner by cavalrymen, running into HQ.
8. At precisely 3 P.M , an agreement is reached by all sides.
9. 3.30 P.M an all American surrender.
10. General Staff and GI's are taken as slaves.[/quote wrote:
1. The M1A1 Abram tanks will find themselves blocked, yes, blocked by the roman limes. Caesar's ditches will slow the american advance to a hault.
2. Then , by deploying his hipaspides closer to the blocked tanks, Caesar can start taking them out one by one, using tar and greek-fire.
3. Further use of flaming arows against the 101 Airborne Division marines will prove itself of greater importance on a flat terrain, where the marines will find virtually no cover, ending up beeing pinned down by a halle of arrows.
4. To counter the enemy's mortar and heavy artilery, Caesar would sent his Heavy Cavarly upon them, slashing their crews in an instant.
5. Apache helicopters watching the area will find it dificult to take out their targets, due to the fact that the battle is already engaged by romans and the americans soldiers are virtually fighting close combat, in wich the legionaries will prevail, sooner or later.
6. With the machinegun bunkers of the American Army, Caesar can only sit back and enjoy the show as his balistae and catapults blast the entranchments apart.
7. The American Comander is taken prisoner by cavalrymen, running into HQ.
8. At precisely 3 P.M , an agreement is reached by all sides.
9. 3.30 P.M an all American surrender.
10. General Staff and GI's are taken as slaves.
neamtzu_rau]That particular armour division that u think is capable of overthrowing any pre-medieval time empire ( that includes milions of men, fighting against thousands of well armed american troops) will eventually ran out of fuel and ammo.
What then ? You got those tanks stuck in the midlle of nowhere, they can't slip away from the enemy ( no gas) and they sure can't keep'em at bay ( no shells left)
What will your modern-day commander do ? I sugest you rethink your strategies. Military men nowadays aren't great at craftmenship, load your riffle and you are set to go, marine. I doubt they would CAN replace the armour-piercing shells with any corosive material that would send some sort of impact in the enemy's ranks.
Presumely there are fighting the Huns with no ammo left, what now ?
you can't answer this question, because there is only ONE answer. The marines will fail. No bullets, average army man today is way-under the level of a Hun warrior or Roman Legionaire.
Even if they kill like thousands, they still run out of bullets. Face it. They can't win.
So, who do you think wou wrote:
That particular armour division that u think is capable of overthrowing any pre-medieval time empire ( that includes milions of men, fighting against thousands of well armed american troops) will eventually ran out of fuel and ammo.
What then ? You got those tanks stuck in the midlle of nowhere, they can't slip away from the enemy ( no gas) and they sure can't keep'em at bay ( no shells left)
What will your modern-day commander do ? I sugest you rethink your strategies. Military men nowadays aren't great at craftmenship, load your riffle and you are set to go, marine. I doubt they would CAN replace the armour-piercing shells with any corosive material that would send some sort of impact in the enemy's ranks.
Presumely there are fighting the Huns with no ammo left, what now ?
you can't answer this question, because there is only ONE answer. The marines will fail. No bullets, average army man today is way-under the level of a Hun warrior or Roman Legionaire.
Even if they kill like thousands, they still run out of bullets. Face it. They can't win.[/quote] So, who do you think would win?
This new forum is terrible. Try again Wizards ----Narukagami
Well, while it does depend on supply lines, I seriously doubt that anything the romans had even comes close to the range of even WWII vintage artillery, much less modern ones. The US would have to train everyone to conserve ammo more so than they already do, but they can get solid shots in before even the archers could get in range, the armor they had in those ages wouldn't do anything to stop even a pistol, and you have to consider morale. If you were a centurion and you were seeing your allies being killed by enemies you couldn't see (Camo at 300 yards against someone who has never tried to see someone in camo), by invisible arrows, would you continue to advance in phalanx against the nearly-invisible demons or would you run? Enemies that attack in the night, with almost perfect vision while you are straining to even make out basic shapes with sleep in your eyes?
And if everything else went wrong, a B83 landing on Caesar's palace ought to end all problems. Hell, it wouldn't even have to be a nuke, and there is no way that the romans would notice the plane, you can't stop what you can't see, and if they somehow miraculously notice the bomb as it comes down through their well-known god-mod power, what are they going to do? Shoot it? Blow it up? If you are within range of it, you are within the explosion radius, and if it is a nuke, you get to pick whether to be incinerated on the spot, or be cooked from the inside.
edit: And I seriously doubt that someone who can't spell needed did serious research. Especially because if he did, he would know that flaming arrows were actually very rarely used, because 1) it messes up the course of the arrow, and 2) You are bringing a flame up to your bow. Your wooden bow. Your flammable wooden bow.
Not to make an inflammatory comment, but I'm catching a load of fanboyism from those quotes... rivaling Katana fanboyism. It's actually kinda scary.
Technology wins. We simply have advantages the Romans could never dream of. If we really wanted to commit the genocide of the entire Roman Empire, we could stomp it flat in a massive air raid; destroy the camps, marching armies, politicians... the list goes on. There's nothing they can do against a plane, and little to nothing against a helicopter.
I don't think there really is much more to be said that Nodaisho hasn't already covered... That is, until someone plays devil's advocate.
Native CAS/FO flights. The army has helicopters & A10's for a lot of good reasons, and one of the really good ones it telling divarty what gridsquares need to be erased by the 155mm guns several miles away.
While cavalry charge sounds like a good idea against the artilery, that is because those cavalry havent heard of CanisterFlechette muntitions that wipe out entire horsetroops per shot. Any that survive can find out the firebase has Overwatch infantry support the hard way. 2000 horse can become a memory, never even getting close to the 155mm battery & 8 BMG humvees .
Sure, if some guy want to have the tanks be dumb, they can lose. Or if you say there is just not enough bullets to kill every Roman. Or if we left the heli's at home. But Joe Stallin had a saying about modern combat: Artillery is the god of war. Roman seige engines had neither the range nor maneuver to compete with 25mmBushmaster AFVs less 120mmMBTs, and their cavalry didnt have firepower or maneuver on the Hummers. Even Brit Longbowmen fall way short vs m16/SAW. Advancing infantry assuming their tower sheild wall will stop a 50BMG or even a m60 will get mowed like the lawn way before they can even think about chucking their pilum.
"Ok Jimmy, I'll hold the grenade pin while you put the mayonaise on the weasle"
Ya know, when push comes to shove, even if they ran out of ammo, I'm pretty sure an M1A1 can win just by holding down the gas pedal. I can't really imagine a Roman Legion coming up with tank traps fast enough to stop the Calvary from running over everything.
Or of course they can lose if Caesar has enough Legionnaires and we're talking about a game of Civilization II or III :D.
neamtzu_rau]True, true, but they were like 20 nationalities livin' in the Roman Empire at the time and I doubt that fifty thousand men can whitstand the share weight of 20 billion of sarmatians,parthians,iranians,jews,galls,germans,britans,cartaginians,nubians, egiptians,greeks.
Get your facts right. Again. Please , try answering my "refuel" question once in a whille...
Face it, when you ran outta bullets, the Sarmathians, Galic tribes, Germans, Chartaginians , Thracians, Dacians, Huns ,Egyptians and yes, Romans will have a field-day.
Your average M-16 holds 20- or 30-rounds. It's range (550 m) allows it to be quite deadly. Lett's say you slaughter millions of archers, spearmen,cavalry. If all the nations unite against you, that's IT ! END GAME !
Basically, as soon as you atack and defeat a roman army, more armies will come over your positions and no matter how well defended, how heavyly armoured , how well supllyed you are, you will eventually run OUT of bullets. Kill thousands, it's okay, but were will you get other M-16 mags ? From the smith? And remember, as soon as u start killing, it would be even harder for you to survive that time-line, because, basically you'll be at war with the whole world. Remember, those "2-3 clips of ammunition for their rifle" it's ALL you've got ! After that, it's your time to perish.
I doubt that romans will look at you as gods, or be scared of your riffles. They were very resiliant and always fought untill the bitter end of a campaign. As soon as one people advance on their lands, chalenging them, they would gather forces and eventually defeat them.
You will loose men . Plague, if not from poison, because the locals will soon poison all wells and waterlines, so what then ? And each time you fight a battle, you loose a litlle more. Your men will eventually feel this is hopelles. So what do you do then ?
When you run outta ammo ? And fuel ? Your jets are grounded, your tanks are imobile, every single cannon is now just a piece of junk. Did you think of this outcome ?
Or do you suposse you'll reach Rome in no time and overpower the Emperor. Even so, there's the rest of the barbarians to think about. My advice is : save your bullets. You can't gun down everyone ! This isn't a John Wayne movie...
An wrote:
True, true, but they were like 20 nationalities livin' in the Roman Empire at the time and I doubt that fifty thousand men can whitstand the share weight of 20 billion of sarmatians,parthians,iranians,jews,galls,germans,britans,cartaginians,nubians, egiptians,greeks.
Get your facts right. Again. Please , try answering my "refuel" question once in a whille...
Face it, when you ran outta bullets, the Sarmathians, Galic tribes, Germans, Chartaginians , Thracians, Dacians, Huns ,Egyptians and yes, Romans will have a field-day.
Your average M-16 holds 20- or 30-rounds. It's range (550 m) allows it to be quite deadly. Lett's say you slaughter millions of archers, spearmen,cavalry. If all the nations unite against you, that's IT ! END GAME !
Basically, as soon as you atack and defeat a roman army, more armies will come over your positions and no matter how well defended, how heavyly armoured , how well supllyed you are, you will eventually run OUT of bullets. Kill thousands, it's okay, but were will you get other M-16 mags ? From the smith? And remember, as soon as u start killing, it would be even harder for you to survive that time-line, because, basically you'll be at war with the whole world. Remember, those "2-3 clips of ammunition for their rifle" it's ALL you've got ! After that, it's your time to perish.
I doubt that romans will look at you as gods, or be scared of your riffles. They were very resiliant and always fought untill the bitter end of a campaign. As soon as one people advance on their lands, chalenging them, they would gather forces and eventually defeat them.
You will loose men . Plague, if not from poison, because the locals will soon poison all wells and waterlines, so what then ? And each time you fight a battle, you loose a litlle more. Your men will eventually feel this is hopelles. So what do you do then ?
When you run outta ammo ? And fuel ? Your jets are grounded, your tanks are imobile, every single cannon is now just a piece of junk. Did you think of this outcome ?
Or do you suposse you'll reach Rome in no time and overpower the Emperor. Even so, there's the rest of the barbarians to think about. My advice is : save your bullets. You can't gun down everyone ! This isn't a John Wayne movie...[/quote] And this.
This new forum is terrible. Try again Wizards ----Narukagami
I'm unable to view the original thread because I do not have a IMDB account, so unless conditions are supposedly different, there's something huge to think about here: we have an ocean between us, a really big ocean. Even if the countries miraculously defeat our armies (which would have been preceded by aircraft, which would have bombed their legions to dust before any engagements), they still have to cross an ocean their ships are barely capable of surviving. They'll be lucky to find their way anywhere near the U.S... and if they do, they'll be blasted by the ammo at home. It's a lot easier to kill a bunch of people when they've so kindly bundled themselves in waterborne wooden boxes. ^_^
Sure, they could try and metagame their way through Alaska... I'd like to see them survive that terrain.
The topic creator basically stated that the U.S. Military appears around ancient Rome via some time travel method. They have limited resources, with no way to gate more in.
This new forum is terrible. Try again Wizards ----Narukagami
Okay... so the U.S. forces appear in the era and instantly go to war with the Roman Empire, risking their very existence via paradox at the same time?
Some might say Military Intelligence is an oxymoron, but... I would like to think we're not that stupid. I think they'd probably try and make as little an impact as possible for the reasons I've already mentioned.
If their very purpose was to eliminate the Roman Empire, they would have done their homework... An infiltration team would assassinate as many leaders as they could in the first strike, cutting the snake of at its head before sneaking out of the city. When the allies of Rome came in to aid, there would be no army to fight, as the US forces would have relocated to a very defensible and out-of-the-way location (quite possibly somewhere they can begin building means to resupply ammunition). The US armed forces will make use of assassination tactics the Romans and their allies cannot hope to counter. People die instantly, struck down as though the gods willed it...
There would be panic. Chaos is weakness... and the Roman Empire would crumble before its time, with minimal losses to the US due to using, you know, tactics.
I keep on thinking a lot more units have mortars or light artillery attached than apaches and abrams, so this must be a VERY sizable US force.
I also keep on thinking of mortars raining down destruction from the skys. How is a roman going to interpret that? Their gods must be really ******, or these foreign gods are really powerful, time to run!
I don't see them holding at all, I see them immediately running.
Obviously this guy has no concept of the range of ancient war engines and modern firearms. you can simply plug the guy running the catapult in the head, and then what? A M240 where you can watch your tracers, you can really reach out and touch someone, not even mentioning the M82.
Yes, there is a point where the US troops would run out of ammo and gas, but it wouldn't be immediately, and the devistation they would cause prior to that would send shockwaves of such magnitude that the empire would collapse.
I think it is much more intersting to wonder how far a single company, 100 men, with their basic full combat loadout, say they were in Iraq and stepped through some time portal, how long and how much they could accomplish.
I think 100 men with M-16s set on semiauto, taking reasonably careful shots at men standing in rank and file would kill 100-200 men instantly. If a group of musket armed troops of the napoleonic era could muster enough firepower to repulse a cavlary charge, 2 guys with M-16s could do the same.
The Romans didn't have crap for archers anyways, they more relied on javelins. And modern weapons so outclass javelins it isn't even funny.
Plus the whole term 'decimation' came from the pracitce of the roman legion if it fled in battle. They drew lots and 1 in 10 was sentenced to death, the other 9 had to beat him to death. Thing is, in ancient warfare, the deathrate was pretty low, you stood a better chance of surviving by sticking in the fight than if you had to face 'decimation'
So I have to think that the rapidity of which the front rank would simply drop screaming and fountaining blood when the enemy were still basically dots (say prone at 300 yards) it would break the nerve of a man who could stand sholder to shoulder and stab at his enemy for hours.
