|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 9:53AM
#41
|
|
|
psly4mne: If you're talking about my Shadowcraft Trickster build, there are two reasons for taking the 7th beguiler level. First, because you already need Decipher Script, Disable Device, Escape Artist, K(Arcana), Hide, Move Silently, Bluff and Spellcraft ranks, and trying to fit the Mindbender prereqs in as well means you will barely scrape them.
The second is because I was going for atleast 4+Int skill points per level, and Mindbender is only 2+Int. I intended the build to work as a scout and/or skill monkey as well as a caster.[/quote]
I just put Mindbender in there for no particular reason. You are right that a level of Beguiler could be better, depending on your priorities for the build. Anyway, you missed the point of the post - the entry I listed is 6 levels instead of 7. Instead of Beguiler 6/X 1/Beguiler +1/ScM or Beguiler 7/ScM, you can just go Beguiler 6/ScM.
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 10:09AM
#42
|
Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2005
|
It was actually Beguiler 6/X 1/Y 1/Beguiler +1, and they're needed to qualify for Arcane Trickster, not Shadowcraft Mage. Effectively, it's a choice between Beguiler 7 or Arcane Trickster 7. More skill points and Advanced Learning or Impromptu Sneak Attack +1/day.
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 10:55AM
#43
|
|
|
It was actually Beguiler 6/X 1/Y 1/Beguiler +1, and they're needed to qualify for Arcane Trickster, not Shadowcraft Mage. Effectively, it's a choice between Beguiler 7 or Arcane Trickster 7. More skill points and Advanced Learning or Impromptu Sneak Attack +1/day.[/quote]
I'm sorry - I was referring to the Beguiler build in the OP, which seemed to be the consensus "iconic" Beguiler/ScM and which uses Beguiler 6/X 1/Beguiler +1. I didn't notice that you were referring to an Arcane Trickster/ScM build. Your build looks good for a different spin on the ScM.
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 11:52AM
#44
|
|
|
*build snipped for illegality*
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 12:38PM
#45
|
Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2003
|
I'll add the build to the OP with a link to your post.
At epic levels Incantatrix gives more bang for the buck with Instant Metamagic. Being able to increase the spell level by an arbitrarily large amount without any help is, um, nice.
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 12:44PM
#46
|
|
|
So basically when a dragonborn of Bahamut creates the same effect in the same slot as a shadowcraft gnome, then the DC is the same. I got that. And other benefits as well. Copacetic. Truly, dragonborn of bahamut is the way to go in a killer gnome build. If you can get your DM to spring for it, of course.
prototype00
P.s. Not that its a tremendous deal here, but would it be possible to mention the light-armor wearing capabilities of the beguiler in the pros section for them? It is another way to add ac and other protective qualities (soulfire anyone?) to your character without the fear of them being magicked away.[/quote]
And the reason we do the Dragonborn is to qualify for the practical metamagic feat, right?
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 2:48PM
#47
|
|
|
McJarvis, Hathrans must be human due to the prerequisite feat Ethran. You could still do that, but you would need to use the non-gnome adaptation of ScM. A general point: I think the Incantatrix is a far better choice than the Shadowcrafter in general: Observe: Shadowcrafter: +20% reality, +4 spell penetration Incantatrix: Improved Metamagic (+10% reality, +1 CL, +1 DC, +1 spell level mimicked), plus lots of other bonuses. The beguiler build in the OP is hardly optimized, in part because it uses the slow 8-level ScM entry and in part because the levels of Beguiler beyond the minimum don't do that much. Here is what I consider an optimal Beguiler build: Beguiler 5/ScM 5/Inx 10
Show
Dragonborn Gnome
1. Beguiler 1 (Spell Focus[illus])
2. Beguiler 2
3. Beguiler 3 (Iron Will)
4. Beguiler 4
5. Beguiler 5 (Silent Spell)
6. Incantatrix 1 (Heighten Spell, Practical Metamagic[heighten])
7. Shadowcraft Mage 1
8. Shadowcraft Mage 2
9. Shadowcraft Mage 3 (Earth Sense)
10. Shadowcraft Mage 4
11. Shadowcraft Mage 5
12. Incantatrix 2 (Earth Spell)
13. Incantatrix 3
14. Incantatrix 4 (Quicken Spell)
15. Incantatrix 5 (Arcane Thesis)
16. Incantatrix 6
17. Incantatrix 7 (Extend Spell)
18. Incantatrix 8 (Arcane Mastery or Extraordinary Concentration)
19. Incantatrix 9
20. Incantatrix 10 (Still Spell) Or, if you prefer Shadowcrafter: Beguiler 6/ScM 5/SA 1/Shadowcrafter 8
Show
Dragonborn Gnome
1. Beguiler 1 (Spell Focus[illus])
2. Beguiler 2
3. Beguiler 3 (Heighten Spell)
4. Beguiler 4
5. Beguiler 5 (Silent Spell)
6. Beguiler 6 (Practical Metamagic[heighten])
7. Shadowcraft Mage 1
8. Shadowcraft Mage 2
9. Shadowcraft Mage 3 (Shadow Weave Magic)
10. Shadowcraft Mage 4
11. Shadowcraft Mage 5
12. Shadow Adept 1 (Greater Spell Focus[illus])
13. Shadowcrafter 1
14. Shadowcrafter 2
15. Shadowcrafter 3 (Earth Sense)
16. Shadowcrafter 4
17. Shadowcrafter 5
18. Shadowcrafter 6 (Earth Spell)
19. Shadowcrafter 7
20. Shadowcrafter 8 The second has heavy prerequisites, forcing Earth Spell to wait until 18th, but the first is the best Beguiler Shadowcraft Mage build I've seen. One crazy thing I just noticed: Say you have Arcane Thesis and Shadowcraft Mage 2+. Silent Illusion says: "... as if the Silent Spell feat had been applied to them." That means (it would seem) that Arcane Thesis applies to those spells and makes them take up one spell slot lower. So the Incantatrix build in this post can, at level 20, cast a Still Silent Extended Quickened 120% Sphere of Ultimate Destruction from an 8th level spell slot (6th if you remove Quickened).
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 3:01PM
#48
|
|
|
One crazy thing I just noticed: Say you have Arcane Thesis and Shadowcraft Mage 2+. Silent Illusion says: "... as if the Silent Spell feat had been applied to them." That means (it would seem) that Arcane Thesis applies to those spells and makes them take up one spell slot lower. So the Incantatrix build in this post can, at level 20, cast Meteor Swarm (120% real) out of a 6th level spell slot. Or quickened Meteor Swarm (120%) from an 8th level slot.How can he cast MS as a level 6 spell slot? I hate to ask, but can spell out how the application of feats does this. I am still a bit shaky on how everything applies  Thanks Also, if we can convince our DM that Arcane Disciple will work with a beguiler, will the Miracle cheese work with the Incatrix Beguiler build?
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 3:10PM
#49
|
Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2003
|
@McJarvis: Yeah, hmm. McJarvis, if you want to redo your build so that it fits the prereqs correctly, that'd be cool, as it's an interesting concept.
@psly4mne: Well, the sample builds are not meant to be optimal, simply demonstrative.
That Arcane Thesis thing is a little wonky even for me.
|
|
|
|
7 years ago ::
Jun 20, 2006 - 3:40PM
#50
|
|
|
|
|
|
