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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 2:59PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2002
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On the subject of the Sublime Chord:
I've been doing some thinking about it, and here's the problem: as written, the caster level is based on your levels in SC and levels in another spellcasting class...not on your caster levels.
That's a significant difference, because it means that things like caster level increases won't affect all of your classes.
Take, for instance, a Bard 2/Wizard 8/SC 1. Let's say you add your wizard levels to your SC level. Your CL for Bard, Wizard, and SC is now 9.
Now let's say you take Practiced Spellcaster for Wizard. Your Wizard spellcaster level goes up by 2, since it was 2 below your hit dice...but your SC caster level wouldn't go up at all, as it's not BASED on your Wizard caster level.
This has plusses and minuses for an Ultimate Magus.
Minus: adding a caster level to Wizard (from UM) when all of your caster levels are equal will NOT increase your SC or Bard CL...and, consequently, will make your Wizard CL higher, and thus prevent you from choosing where the next "off level" increase goes.
On the plus side, you can use Practiced Spellcaster to manipulate the caster levels of individual classes--and thus, you can STILL ensure that your Wizard CL is safely lower than your Bard or SC levels at all times by simply adding Practiced Spellcaster to the latter two classes.
Another, less feat-intensive way to manipulate your wizard CL would be to take a single level of Wild Mage at 5th level...thus lowering your base Wizard CL by 3.
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 3:28PM
#32
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2005
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If one can get Perform via another source(Skill Knowledge, or whatever), the two levels of Bard might be subtituted for two levels of Virtuoso, which could provide the neccisary skills for Sublime Chord, and, as I read it, Bardic Music, for the cost of only one Wizard spell progression.
(If it doesn't give Bardic Music, then my bad.)
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 3:36PM
#33
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2002
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It gives *some* bardic music. Sort of.
It gives one of the abilities, and stacks with Bard for some of the others.
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 4:49PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Oct 15, 2005
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But does that mean it meets the prequisite?
Well, the ability is still called 'Bardic Music' under the Virtuoso, and Sublime Chord asks for 'Bardic Music ability', and not a specific ability under that, such as Facinate. As it's an ability of the Virtuoso called 'Bardic Music', I think it meets the prequisite.
Only saves one caster level, but that's still worth it.
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 5:45PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Jan 27, 2004
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I think this works, it depends on if Practiced Spellcaster and Illumian sigil bonus happens before Spell Power... if so, sweet. Illumian (Naen Krau)
Beguiler 1\Abjurer 4\Ultimate Magus 10\Archmage 5
Lvl C.Lvl C. HD Class Forbidden Schools Ench & Illu
01 01\00 01\00 Beg 01
02 02\02 01\01 Beg 01\Abj 01
03 03\03 01\02 Beg 01\Abj 02
04 04\04 01\03 Beg 01\Abj 03
05 05\05 01\04 Beg 01\Abj 04
06 07\07 01\05 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 01
07 08\08 02\06 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 02
08 09\09 03\07 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 03
09 11\11 03\08 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 04
10 12\12 04\09 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 05
11 13\13 05\10 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 06
12 15\15 06\10 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 07
13 16\16 07\11 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 08
14 17\17 08\12 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 09
15 19\19 09\13 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 10
16 21\21 09\14 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 10\AM 01
17 21\22 09\15 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 10\AM 02
18 21\23 09\16 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 10\AM 03
19 21\24 09\17 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 10\AM 04
20 22\25 10\17 Beg 01\Abj 04\UM 10\AM 05
Final CL: 24\27, With Orange Ioun Stone and a
Ring of Arcane Might, 26\29 for SR.
Flaws Murkey Eyed, Noncombatant
Lvl01 Quicken Spell, Practiced Spellcaster (Beguiler)
Enhanced Power Sigil
Bonus Scribe Scroll
Lvl03 Spell Focus (Transmutation)
Lvl06 Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Lvl09 Spell Focus (Enchantment)
Bonus Silent Spell
Lvl12 Spell Penetration
Lvl15 Twin Spell
Bonus Still Spell
Lvl18 Heighten Spell
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 6:43PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2004
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On the subject of the Sublime Chord:
I've been doing some thinking about it, and here's the problem: as written, the caster level is based on your levels in SC and levels in another spellcasting class...not on your caster levels.
That's a significant difference, because it means that things like caster level increases won't affect all of your classes.
Take, for instance, a Bard 2/Wizard 8/SC 1. Let's say you add your wizard levels to your SC level. Your CL for Bard, Wizard, and SC is now 9.
Now let's say you take Practiced Spellcaster for Wizard. Your Wizard spellcaster level goes up by 2, since it was 2 below your hit dice...but your SC caster level wouldn't go up at all, as it's not BASED on your Wizard caster level.[/quote]
I was thinking about the same thing today! 
The solution that I've seen tossed about is to take Practiced Spellcaster (Sublime Chord) ... that would potentially affect all three classes. The wording of SC is ... odd. However it's clear that you have a Sublime Chord caster level and that you set other things based on your Sublime Chord casting.
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 7:32PM
#37
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2005
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I would just like to join the line and say thank you, Phoenix00. This is a fantastic guide. I find your images incredibly useful. Have a  I also like the incorporation of a tricks/combos section. It shall serve you well. 
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 8:14PM
#38
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 9:15PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2004
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This made me go WHAT but have you guys seen the latest Ask Wizards thing on the UM?
Q: The ultimate magus's Expanded Spell Knowledge class feature (from Complete Mage) lets you add an arcane spell from your spellbook to another arcane class's list of spells known. Does this ability allow you to add a spell not on your second arcane casting's class spell list? For example, could a wizard/bard/ultimate magus choose to add magic missile to their list of bard spells, or could they only add a spell that's already on the bard's spell list?
--Greg
A: The spell must be on the spells known list for the second class. It's not really a game balance issue -- it's not overpowered for a wizard/bard/ultimate magus to use bard slots to cast magic missile -- but rather that some spells are designed to work only for prepared-spell casters, and thus don't function appropriately for spontaneous casters.
If the player and DM can agree to avoid any spell designed only for prepared-spell casters, it's perfectly fine as a house rule to allow the ultimate magus to add wizard spells to her bard spell list, or whatever.
--Andy Collins
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7 years ago ::
Oct 25, 2006 - 9:38PM
#40
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Date Joined:
Sep 28, 2005
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Query: Has any discussed the interaction Wild Mage with Ultimage Magus? Here's how I see it:
"She reduces her caster level by 3 for all spells she cast from now on. Howevver, eavery time she casts a spell, her use of wild magic adds 1d6 to her adjusted caster level. For example, an 8th level sorcerer/1st level wild mage has a base caster level of 6th, not 9th, but her actual caster level varies from 7th to 12th for every spell she casts.[/quote]
Now...
For example, a 4th-level wizard/1st-level sorcerer who gained one level of ultimate magus would gain increased spellcasting ability as if he had gained a level of sorcerer (since that class's caster level is lower than his wizard caster level)[/quote]
Clearly, which class is granted these CL at 1,4,& 7 are granted to the spell casting class which has a lower CL, as I'm sure has already been well established. (My point is that it has nothing to do with spell level).
So now, the argument is as follows:
Claim: Wild mage depresses a given casting class's CL by 3 for the purposes of the UM.
Support: The base caster level is undoubtedly what is the determining factor. It would be rather silly if one were to consider CL (for the purposes of this rule) with additional (and temporary) modifications of the base CL. Feats are not temporary, nor are class abilities... typically. However, Wild Mage clearly grants a temporary bonus to CL ONLY when a spell is cast. While a wild mage is NOT casting spells, the "base" caster level is unmodified at Normal CL - 3. This means that a wild mage makes Caster Level checks at a -3 penalty whenever the wildmage is not in the process of casting a spell.
Now, doesn't anyone find it in the slightest bit amusing that CL penalty from Wild Mage is precisely the number of these "odd-ball" progression levels?
So, for example, a build that goes like:
Wizard 4/Sorcerer1/Wild Mage 1/Ultimate Magus 10/XXX Full Progression PrC
(PrCs always advance wizard)
Would have: Sorcerer 8. Wizard 19 + 1d6
So, is this worth optimizing?
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