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8 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2005 - 7:20PM
#61
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2002
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Go back and reread the original post, evil--I missed it the first time, too. It's down near the bottom. He's given himself Divine Rank 0.
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8 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2005 - 7:24PM
#62
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Just a note: "Furthermore, the alterations are automatically passed on to all the creature's offspring when it breeds with another of its unmodified kind."
I don't have Dragon 332, but anyone care to look up The Ecology of the Kobold for 3.5? I assume it has some info on kobold reproduction, like number of eggs, hatching time, etc. Then again, the particular numbers cannot matter much, on the assumption that we have a male kobold; we just need to know how far 20,010 Charisma gets you...what was someone saying about James Bond?
In whatever a kobold's gestation time is, we can produce a nigh-infinite number of these things. Is there a spell or power that lets you control your offspring? Kronos had a few kids significantly less powerful than Pun-Pun, and that caught up with him rather quickly.
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8 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2005 - 7:33PM
#63
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This loop can be done easier with scrolls of Polymorph, PAO, and Ability Rip, and by turning yourself into a Tainted One instead of being a silly kobold.
Also, you guys know that the Manipulate ability only gives allows you to increase stats up to equal to your own stats. It says "Any ability score may be decreased to a minimum of 1, or increased to a maximum equal to the sarrukh's corrosponding score."
So, unless you can get +20,000 to a stat via some other infinite loop, you can't give a +20k stat. The "wash and repeat" cycle in the first post doesn't work.
The infinite abilities is completely kosher though.
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8 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2005 - 7:54PM
#64
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This loop can be done easier with scrolls of Polymorph, PAO, and Ability Rip, and by turning yourself into a Tainted One instead of being a silly kobold.
Also, you guys know that the Manipulate ability only gives stats up to equal to your own stats. So unlesss you can get +20,000 to a stat via some other infinite loop, you can't give a +20k stat.
The infinite abilities is completely kosher though.[/quote]
Step 1: Decrease Psi Crystal to Fine
Step 2: Have Psi Crystal Increase your size to Collossal
Step 3: Grant Psi Crystal your current Stength Score
Step 4: Grant Psi Crystal your current Constitution Score (since it's a viper or whatever it has one)
Step 5: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Dexterity Score
Step 6: Increase Psi Crystal to Collossal
Step 7: Have Psi Crystal Decrease you to Fine
Step 8: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Strength Score
Step 9: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Constitution Score
Step 10: Grant Psi Crystal your current Dexterity Score
Repeat as desired, this'll give you the loop for physical ability scores
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8 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2005 - 8:42PM
#65
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Date Joined:
Jan 11, 2005
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I'm ruling every score transfer grant exactly everything that make it up when copied. Implicitedly it grant the enhancement bonus, racial bonus, size bonus, etc. The scaled critter get all this exactly. Explanation hmm perhaps the manipulate form ability is doing a genetic transfer plus copying what is going on in the donator's body. Now I'm trying to figure out how strong a medium size critter can get.
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8 years ago ::
Aug 28, 2005 - 8:45PM
#66
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Step 1: Decrease Psi Crystal to Fine
Step 2: Have Psi Crystal Increase your size to Collossal
Step 3: Grant Psi Crystal your current Stength Score
Step 4: Grant Psi Crystal your current Constitution Score (since it's a viper or whatever it has one)
Step 5: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Dexterity Score
Step 6: Increase Psi Crystal to Collossal
Step 7: Have Psi Crystal Decrease you to Fine
Step 8: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Strength Score
Step 9: Have Psi Crystal grant you its current Constitution Score
Step 10: Grant Psi Crystal your current Dexterity Score
Repeat as desired, this'll give you the loop for physical ability scores[/quote]
Well, that seems to work for physical stats. What's the loop for mental stats?
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8 years ago ::
Aug 29, 2005 - 12:32AM
#67
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given any FIXED amount of time for the cancer mage to develop at 2 str a day, the kobold will always surpass him at some later point. In 1 day, the kobold gains at a rate of 27 years what the cancer mage gains.[/quote]
Very true. That's what I get for not doing the math.
The cancer mage better commit genocide on all the scaled-ones before they get past level 11 or else he's screwed... For that matter, he'd better kill every living thing on the planet before it hits level 11... Actually, he'd better destroy every Shapechange scroll, too...
To that end, I hope he has something other than infinite strength to find everyone  .
i'd bet my last dollar that you can't get +20,000 to your strength.[/quote]
You're on.
....
Thanks for the buck .
Can I have your dollar? (Edit: Of course, it should really go to Khan.)[/quote]
Nah... it's his last one. I'll let him keep it.
this is why i don't allow psionics when i DM lol.......[/quote]
Nah... this just uses the rules for Polymorph. The only thing psionics contributes is that it can be done at a lower level with Metamorphic Transfer. All casters can be broken. You would have to ban the cleric, wizard, hulking hurler, artificer, the diplomacy skill, and much much more to completely protect your game from 'broken' builds.
Ummm, question; Why is Pun-Pun a diety? By virtue of his abilities? I don't have dieties and demigods, is the explanation in there?
As Caelic pointed out, Pun-pun granted himself the ability, as it is seen in the Special Qualities section of the Abomination monsters in the Epic Level Handbook. Sorry, I sort of threw it in there at the last moment.
Just a note: "Furthermore, the alterations are automatically passed on to all the creature's offspring when it breeds with another of its unmodified kind."[/quote]
I totally forgot. Very true. Whenever Pun-pun has a child, he sires a hero deity kobold of infinite power. Hmmm... we'll have to try for some variation of the Slaad Brooder's 10th level ability. Not that it really matters.
This loop can be done easier with scrolls of Polymorph, PAO, and Ability Rip, and by turning yourself into a Tainted One instead of being a silly kobold.[/quote]
By all means, throw up the build. If there are more efficient ways to do it, show them. Do you mean 'quicker' though? I don't think the methods used are relatively difficult, at least not for infinite power.
Well, that seems to work for physical stats. What's the loop for mental stats?
You only need to increase your strength score to 20,010. Then, as I explained in the original post, you use the Bellflower Tattoo ability and the Void Release ability to increase your other scores to tremendous heights, using Manipulate Form to seal the deal. So...
Your Strength is 20,010. You use Bellflower to add your Charisma modifier as a bonus to your Intelligence. But instead of adding your Charisma modifier, you use Void Release to instead add your Strength bonus (+10,000) to your Intelligence. Your Intelligence is now 10,000. You increase your psicrystal's Intelligence to match your own. Dismiss the Bellflower effect. Your psicrystal increases your Intelligence to match his (which is 10,000) using Manipulate Form. Repeat with all abilities, as many times as you want.
Sorry for all of the quotes, but I've been at work most of the day so I didn't have time to keep up.
If anyone knows of ways to improve upon this, or to reach the same results quicker with a different build, by all means post it. I'm not sure about the Divine Minion, I will have to wait to get my Unearthed Arcana back for the Wildhsape Druid.
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8 years ago ::
Aug 29, 2005 - 5:03AM
#68
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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Manipulate Form.. it stats that it can modify the form of a Scaled One native to Toril. Yes you may be that creature but that doesn't mean your native to the place. Also how would your character know about such a creature and what Supernatural power it has?
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8 years ago ::
Aug 29, 2005 - 7:17AM
#69
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Date Joined:
Nov 27, 2002
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Hmm. Khan--suppose, for a second, that a ruling came down extablishing that the Sarrukh could not pass on stat bonuses granted by spells or items (including indirectly-granted bonuses like size bonuses.)
How far could you take the build with that limitation?
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8 years ago ::
Aug 29, 2005 - 7:26AM
#70
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Hmm. Khan--suppose, for a second, that a ruling came down extablishing that the Sarrukh could not pass on stat bonuses granted by spells or items (including indirectly-granted bonuses like size bonuses.)
How far could you take the build with that limitation?[/quote]
i imagine that he could have the highest ability score of any creature listed in the game applied to all his stats (using metamorph to turn his psicrystal into the creature, getting the ability score, and using the void / bellflower technique to apply to every stat)... sorry for answering, but he said he's been busy
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