A 9th level summoner-archetype wizard is just fine with 15 intelligence. If he grabs and memorizes phantasmal killer though, he should know he is doing something wrong.
No, he's not doing something wrong if he memorizes phantasmal killer. That's something any wizard should be able to do at any time. He did something wrong when he took 15 intelligence.
Oh yea, also... touch of stupidity. Try to summon something now.
A wizard's Int should always be as high as possible.
No, he's not doing something wrong if he memorizes phantasmal killer. That's something any wizard should be able to do at any time. He did something wrong when he took 15 intelligence.
Oh yea, also... touch of stupidity. Try to summon something now.
A wizard's Int should always be as high as possible.
...and what if 15 is his higher stat, as with the elite array? He's probably better off playing a summoner, than, say, a shadowcraft mage, which relies heavily on DCs (unless it's a killer gnome with 110% real illusions).
He did something wrong when he took 15 intelligence.
I agree with that. But I also think that optimization is a matter of doing your best with limited resources. A character with 18 in every stat is not optimized, it's just overpowered. Take an NPC, for example. My DM asked me whether I could make an NPC for him. If I had followed the advice on the DMG I would have used the elite array, which starts from 15. It was too low a score in m opinion, so I decided to go 28 point-buy. If I had decided to use the elite array I would have had to try harder, and that would have been "optimization". Finally, when you write a handbook you have to speak with a lot of different players and masters, so it's useful to write as much as you can: even if most people won't use your advice, someone might find it useful.
The fact of the matter is that if you have ability scores that are even across the board then playing a wizard is not for you. Wizards tend to focus on Int more than anything. If you got 3 15-16 rolls then you are going to make a good fighter. You can afford to be flexible with Combat Expertise and Power Attack, or Power Attack and Whirlwind Attack. Or, you can be a rogue with awesome skills and dex.
If you go to wizard school, you are going to be a C or D average student. You will be BEATEN UP by the other wizards.
Kidding aside, if 15 was your highest stat then it is time to take some aging templates if you want to be a wizard. By the way, other things you should mention: all of the goodness that an aging template all of the goodness of a False Life spell to offset the hp you lose from the aging template (hint, if your aging gives a level 2 spell that more-than-offsets any hp loss, more spells, increaseed DC, increased skills, you are winning).
Arcane devotees are an interesting choice if you intend to adopt your party's divine spellcaster deity. The requirements are pretty easy, but enlarge spell [SUP]PHB[/SUP] is more or less useless.
Class Features:
Reach of the Holy [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain the use of a sudden enlarge effect 1+cha times per day. It would be more useful if the feat it offered was better. You can use enlarge spell to close range spells to gain some safety from the distance provided.
Sacred Defense [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain a bonus on saving throws against divine spells and spell-like and supernatural abilities of outsiders. It's a wide range of spells it protects you from, so it's worth it.
Divine Synergy [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Any time you are the target of a spell cast by a divine spellcaster with whom you share a patron deity, the effects of the spell are empowered. Nice ability.
Divine Shroud [SUP](Sp)[/SUP]: Unfortunately the caster level for this spell is equal to your arcane devotee level, which is five max. So it will only give you 18 spell resistance for five minutes, which is pretty crappy.
Roleplay requirements are pretty steep, but it's not a problem from an optimization side. Leadership[SUP]DMG[/SUP] is pretty much an important feat and Ethran[SUP]PGtF[/SUP] lets you participate in circle magic. Other than that the class features two good saves, full spellcasting progression and bonus class skills, like survival. Survival is great if your familiar has track[SUP]PHB[/SUP] as a feat. The only problem you will have is that you are not allowed to craft items.
Class Features:
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the whip, which is a nice weapon. It's a free feat.
Leadership Bonus [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: You get a +2 bonus to your leadership score to recruit a cohort. The cohort must be either female with the ethran[SUP]PGtF[/SUP] feat or male with at least a level in the barbarian class. That single barbarian level is really worth it with the introduction of the complete champion.
Rashemi Spirit Magic [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: This ability is very good in rashemen, giving you enormous versatility. If you are in a campaign stationed there, this prestige class is a very good choice.
Spirit Speech [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: An ok ability, communicate with spirits and gain a bonus to checks when dealing with spirits.
Awe of the Wychlaran [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: This is too situational to be useful.
Universal Spirit Magic [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Great ability that gives you enhanced versatility. As rashemi spirit magic, but usable only a few times per day outside rashemen.
Spirit Concordat [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: This is an ok ability to have, but nothing important. Note that it's red because those spells are clerical, but it gets better when you gain access to those at 10th level.
Circle Leader [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Get to be the leader of the circle magic. Circle Magic is an abusable ability, so this is important.
Spirit Dominion: As spirit concordat, this is an ok ability to have, but nothing to die for.
Great Circle Leader [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Your ability to lead circle magic is increased, which is always a good thing. You also get to add some spells to your spell list. Some of them are really nice, like moon blade and the planar ally series of spells.
Enter one of the most powerful wizard prestige classes. Entry requirements are pretty easy, but the iron will[SUP]PHB[/SUP] feat is bad. The class features full spellcasting and a lot of bonus feats. Loss of the rest knowledge skills as class skills is payed off with heal and intimidate.
Class Features:
Bonus Metamagic Feat: You gain four feats in exchange of two (which you used to enter the class). Great, since the requirements are already payed off.
Focused Studies [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: This really sucks, but you can give up a school that won't have a problem losing. That school is probably evocation or enchantment. Look above at the schools of magic section for more information.
Cooperative Metamagic [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Gain the ability to enhance the spells of your allies with metamagic feats. The difficulty class of the spellcraft roll is extremely high, making use of custom magic items that give bonuses to spellcraft mandatory. It is somewhat situational, because you actually need allies with spellcasting ability.
Metamagic Effect [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: This ability can be used in numerous ways, from offensive (sculpting a wall spell of antimagic feat to pass through/not affect you) to defensive (extend a spell already in place, persist a useful spell).
Metamagic Spell Trigger [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: This is the first "hidden" feat you gain with incantatrix, since although it was a unique class feature to this class, it appears as a feat in complete mage. It is extremely useful and is interesting if used in conjuction with metamagic reducers (arcane thesis for example).
Seize Concentration [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Some great spells require concentration and you can maintain control on multiple spells with various feats and abilities (e.g. swift concentration, extraordinary concentration, familiar concentration and the sonorous hum spell). You can even steal your allies concentration spells to open up actions for them.
Instant Metamagic [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Or the easiest way to persist a spell. Apply a single metamagic feat to a spell you are casting. The best part is that it doesn't use an action, so when you get two uses of this ability, it is easy to fire spells enhanced with two free metamagic feats. Candidates for this ability are metamagic feats with heavy level adjustment.
Snatch Spell [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: This is mainly used offensively, but it is really good. Moreover there is no limit to how many spells you can have. Stealing summons at high levels can turn the tide of battle.
Improved Metamagic [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: This helps your class abilities and is actually the second "hidden" feat this class offers. It's also actually an epic feat, gained at fifteen level minimum.
If you are going to be using the shadow weave this prestige class is an absolute must. You can't be good and you have to use two feats to enter. The class offers some bonus class skills: bluff, disguise and hide that will help you with skill tricks. The class features full spellcasting progression and some interesting abilities.
Class Features:
Shadow Feats: Just by dipping this class you gain three bonus feats? Yes please!
Low-Light Vision [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain low-light vision. It's nice, but meh.
Shadow Defense [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain a profane bonus against spells that traditionally have lots of spells that require saving throws. Nice ability.
Shield of Shadows [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: As a standard action raise a shield effect that provides concealment, too. It's an ok ability, but you can duplicate it with spells easily. The spell resistance gained later isn't that great, as it provides a pretty low defense.
Darkvision [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Darkvision is better than low-light vision. The bad point to this is that it's a supernatural effect.
Shadow Walk [SUP](Sp)[/SUP]: This spell is a 5th bard or 6th wizard and for a nice duration. It's worth it.
Shadow Double [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: This ability is great if you give your double items, especially spell-trigger activated items. It essentially doubles your actions, so it's very good.
This is a class that offers something more that pure wizard and acts as a great filler to builds. Offers spot as a class skill and requires two feats to enter. One is the useless combat casting[SUP]PHB[/SUP] and a metamagic feat. The rest requirements are more or less easy to fulfill.
Class Features:
Obligation: This is annoying, but strictly role playing.
Token: Again, this is just for flavor. You can cast some spells that are not allowed by the wards in silverymoon.
Ward Attunement: If your campaign is placed in silverymoon, then this is worth it. You gain the ability to use various spells for free if you are attuned to the wards of silverymoon.
Metamagic Feat: Gain two bonus metamagic feats. Helpful and it pays off your two feats you used to enter this prestige class.
Selective Spell [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: A nice ability that is pretty much unique, too. Of course you are able to use abilities like archmage's mastery of shaping, but this gets the job done.
Spellguard [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Great and unique ability that combined with other effects can even let you persist a personal spell on another party member.
Spell Power [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Extra caster level is always welcome.
Sample Builds:
Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Spellguard of Silverymoon 5
Magelords are a great class, but the requirements are too difficult to enter. You must devote nearly all your feats to fulfill the requirements and you also need to lose caster levels probably for the evasion required. Moreover it's obvious that if you go the standard route, you won't be able to finish the class pre-epic. You may want to work with your DM to reduce at least the spellcasting requirements of this to 4th level spells, to make it more viable. Other than that it features full spellcasting , some sneak attack progression and many bonus class skills like bluff, hide, intimidate, move silently, sense motive, spot and tumble. Strangely, this class has only reflex as a good saving throw and bad BAB.
Class Features:
Bonus Mastered Spell [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain some boost to the amount of spells you can prepare without referring to a spellbook. It's an ok ability and it has synergy with your other class features.
Signature Supremacy [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: This is probably the greatest ability this class offers. The ability to spontaneously cast a large amount of signature spells and get the versatility of a sorcerer.
Signature Supremacy [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: While this is a good ability at first glance, there are some points to consider. The main problem here is that your are spending a whole lot amount of feats to enter the class and there is little room for metamagic feats, since the more mastered spells you have, the better. Moreover without using clever dipping, you are never going to get this class feature before epic levels.
Sample Builds:
Combat Wizard 5/Combat Medic 5/Magelord 10. Uses Arcane Disciple [SUP]CD[/SUP] to get cure light wounds on spell list. Combat wizard variant is there for the large amount of [fighter] feats required to enter both prestige classes.
A class that uses a system for bonus abilities like the loremaster, but has different requirements. The only problem is the race, since you need to be an elf, but that has its uses (like the great elven wizard substitution levels). Features full spellcasting and bonus skills like heal. Makes for a great filler class, since by then you will have really high intelligence modifiers, to select the best of the secrets.
Class Features:
Ancient Knowledge [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain a scaling bonus to knowledge (arcana/history) and use magic device checks.
Secret [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Entering the class with 6 intelligence modifier means that this class gives you two bonus feats that will really help you. There are various bonuses you can choose to boost your weak areas, like fortitude and will save boosts and even limited trap sense.
Signs and Portents [SUP](Sp)[/SUP]:Augury three times per day. Great, since augury is normally a cleric spell. This ability is the equivalent of six spell levels.
Word of Dispel [SUP](Sp)[/SUP]: This isn't that great if you keep in mind that you get various spells of the dispel series. You can use it to fulfill requirements though.
Word of Might [SUP](Sp)[/SUP]: Wizards don't get any of the listed spells. It's great to have a dictum-like spell available.
Sample Builds:
Wizard 6/Incantatrix 10/Olin Gisir 4. Note the feat synergy between incantatrix and olin gisir. Entering the olin gisir with 22 or greater score in intelligence means that it will give you two bonus feats. An item creation and a metamagic one.
Easy requirements and a great filler to another great class, shadowcraft mage. Disguise ranks are somewhat difficult to acquire as class, but it's possible. Full spellcasting progression and bonus class skills: disguise and spot.
Class Features:
Shadow Mien [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Get a bonus on hide and disguise checks. Insignificant.
Enhanced Shadow Conjurations [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Get a bonus to the strength of your shadow conjurations. Great.
Enhanced Shadow Evocations [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Ditto for shadow evocations.
Shadow Spell Penetration [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Get a bonus to overcome spell resistance with your illusion (shadow) spells that stacks with the spell penetration feats. Nice feature.
Resistance to Illusions [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain a bonus against illusion spells and effects. Nice, but nothing difficult to come by.
No Delusions [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Attempt a save against illusion spells even if you do not witness the effect.
Shadow Self [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Become a magical creature. You are considered a native outsider, which works wonders for polymorph spells among other things. You also gain some damage reduction.
This class is unique to what it offers. The requirements are really steep though. The ranks needed in diplomacy are going to be difficult to get and the feat required are four. You also need to be a human from the halruaa region. The class features full spellcasting and bonus class skills: diplomacy and sense motive.
Class Features:
Androit Casting [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Reduce as many as four metamagic feats' level adjustment by one. Great metamagic reducers.
Circle Link [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Participate in a Halruaan circle, which is an interesting and abusable ability. You can even be a circle leader at higher levels.
Signature Sell: Gain this as a bonus feat three times, which offsets the entry requirements, but unfortunately isn't too helpful. You can choose any spell you want as a signature spell, because you don't need to have mastered them beforehand.
me]I have to say something, even if the candyass grannypants on this board tell me I'm mean and a bully.
The fact of the matter is, you don't want someone who is unqualified to write a guide. "He's doing it for free" is not an excuse. The people who read his guide are still spending something--time, and that's ignoring the bad advice they can take away from a bad guide.
Look at this recent topic of conversation on this thread. Dictum said, verbatim, "If you play a summoner you don't want spells. Their creatures have nice durations and you won't use more than 3 summoning spellsin a given battle on average."
Why would you ever want someone who says the above writing a guide on wizards? I mean, he's a nice guy, he's very cordial and friendly, and he's got a lot of time to make threads, but he's not qualified. His archetypes section is useless, as others have pointed out. (I mean, what is its purpose? To help people make decisions on spell-selection? To help people choose prestige classes and feats? To help people allocate ability scores? It doesn't help any of those, even the latter one, which it tried and failed to do.)
He doesn't look like he's ever played a wizard, and he's reasoning out advice without the experience. Take my previous example, about the buffer needing strength. That advice would make sense to anyone who has never played D&D. They would be like "oh, yeah, I'm sure it's synergistic to buff yourself along with your allies, if you're so good at it!" Meanwhile, people like me are thinking, "What the hell, man? If you're buffing, you're not fighting. You've got a standard action a round, and you are going to want to use that action on spells! If you're talking about a gish here, which is a completely different character, he buffs himself almost exclusively. A swift buff and a standard whack. There goes your round. No time to buff others. You optimize to your strengths, and the synergy for buffing others AND buffing yourself AND whacking people is simply not there. Maybe there's a build somewhere that can do it, but it's certainly not an archetype. That's bad advice."
I have to say something, even if the candyass grannypants on this board tell me I'm mean and a bully.[/quote] The fact of the matter is, you don't want someone who is unqualified to write a guide. "He's doing it for free" is not an excuse. The people who read his guide are still spending something--time, and that's ignoring the bad advice they can take away from a bad guide.
Look at this recent topic of conversation on this thread. Dictum said, verbatim, "If you play a summoner you don't want spells. Their creatures have nice durations and you won't use more than 3 summoning spellsin a given battle on average."
Why would you ever want someone who says the above writing a guide on wizards? I mean, he's a nice guy, he's very cordial and friendly, and he's got a lot of time to make threads, but he's not qualified. His archetypes section is useless, as others have pointed out. (I mean, what is its purpose? To help people make decisions on spell-selection? To help people choose prestige classes and feats? To help people allocate ability scores? It doesn't help any of those, even the latter one, which it tried and failed to do.)
He doesn't look like he's ever played a wizard, and he's reasoning out advice without the experience. Take my previous example, about the buffer needing strength. That advice would make sense to anyone who has never played D&D. They would be like "oh, yeah, I'm sure it's synergistic to buff yourself along with your allies, if you're so good at it!" Meanwhile, people like me are thinking, "What the hell, man? If you're buffing, you're not fighting. You've got a standard action a round, and you are going to want to use that action on spells! If you're talking about a gish here, which is a completely different character, he buffs himself almost exclusively. A swift buff and a standard whack. There goes your round. No time to buff others. You optimize to your strengths, and the synergy for buffing others AND buffing yourself AND whacking people is simply not there. Maybe there's a build somewhere that can do it, but it's certainly not an archetype. That's bad advice."
That said, if you don't like it, either make some constructive criticism or, you know, make your own.
Uh, I have been making constructive criticism. Read my post again. As for making my own guide, while I have more experience playing wizards than Dictum, I certainly wouldn't consider myself qualified enough to make a guide on them, even pretending I had the time to do this. I play in a game, run another game, have a career, spend half of my free time in Dundjinni/Photoshop making maps for my campaign and the other half on a social life. I have no time for this. This does not mean I cannot criticize someone who does but is doing a poor job.
I still have the PM's I exchanged with Snow Savant a few years ago offering to organize her personal notes on playing a wizard and helping her make it into a guide, but she disappeared. Now THAT is someone I would want to write a wizard handbook!
I agree with your reasoning, and yet I believe that each handbook we have here is a team work. There is someone who takes time to set it down, and then there are the COers who criticize, express disagreement, add information. If Dictuum writes something which is blatantly wrong, well, someone like you will notice it and, if there's agreement among many members that a section should be changed, I think Dictuum should listen to this opinion and modify his handbook accordingly. I appreciate, for instance, those handbooks which are made by a newly-created account, which everyone can modify.
Requires a feat and some roleplaying stuff to enter, progresses spellcasting except for a single level and provides you with some bonus class skills, like diplomacy, bluff, appraise, forgery, speak language and the great use magic device. However note that to get mark of scribing, you must be a gnome.
Class Features:
Heir's Mark: This is an ok ability, but the abilities of your dragonmark aren't that useful.
Master Scribe [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Reduce the XP and gp costs when making scrolls. If you gain all the five levels of this prestige class, you'll be able to reduce the cost of making scrolls by 25%. Note that this ability is abusable through prestige classes that progress class features and bloodlines [SUP]UA[/SUP].
Scroll Mastery [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Gain a bonus to your UMD checks with scrolls equal to your class level. It's ok, since if you are going to invest in this skill, it makes up for the lost levels.
Improved Arcane Mark [SUP](Ex)[/SUP]: Meh, you get more arcane marks than you will ever need. Fortunately this is actually useful in combination with your strong words ability.
Strong Words [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Expend a dragonmark power and increase the caster level of a scroll you activate. This is great since it actually further lowers the cost of scrolls you make (meaning that you can create scrolls at lower caster level on purpose to boost them later).
Metamagic Scroll [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Use a dragonmark power to apply a metamagic feat to your scroll. The modifier of the metamagic you can apply is limited by the dragonmark power you expend, but even a least dragonmark lets you apply a +2 metamagic feat on your scroll.
Changed Words [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: Nice ability as with the rest of the same set.
Ghost Writing [SUP](Su)[/SUP]: This is a great capstone ability. It gives you great versatility and bonus spells based on your dragonmark powers.
I personally don't like it when community members offer negative comments that berate and or undermine the work of others. Please keep your comments constructive and offer suggestions to improve the writing material with a friendly and professional tone of voice. Ultimately we have one goal in common here. To improve the concepts of OPTIMIZED characters. In order to move forward, advice should be reflective and evaluative, not judgmental.
I believe there are many people on these boards that support the work of Dictum and his PERSONAL opinion on the way in which characters can be optimized. I personally believe that he is not 100% correct in all of his evaluations in the handbooks. However, I do agree with the majority of what is written. Not because I cannot think for myself, but there is logic in what he states.
Remember that each writer will have his own unique perspective and these handbooks are from HIS perspective. It is important for us to be supportive of him until the wizard handbook is finished. Then we can offer positive suggestions for improving the work. Ultimately, he can decide if he wants to take the suggestions and include them in his OWN work. We all have a choice here. Start making choices that reflect advancement and improvement without attacking the author.
Wow I go to bed and I come back to find people attacking each other. Well *does the bard thing and casts Calm Emotions* better?
I partially agree that this work could be a bit better organized, and that some of what the OP/Author of this guide can be wrong. But without offering suggestions to correct the errors, what are we really doing? Just attacking another persons work.
My own suggestion for improvement: For the archetypes to work - Add a misnomer in each archetype stating "These are general archetypes that wizards can fall under, however not all wizards fall within just one of these." Which is similar to what you already have, just separate it somehow in order to highlight it.
I personally disagree with a lot of opinions on the Combat Casting Feat. This feat boosts your ability to cast while grappled(spells with V components only but still useful; you can still cast some useful low level spells - ex. Blindness/Deafness, Blur, any power word, or any still spell that doesn't require material), as well as to cast on the defensive without the worry of being interrupted while casting. Some would say that this is not very useful because the wizard never gets into combat(a work of DM's who don't plan on having a wizard in the party or don't prepare for such an event). This may very well be true, however I have been in situations where I needed a concentration check while being attacked, or backed into a wall with no where to go. Wizards don't often find themselves in this sort of situation but, it does happen on occasion, and this is where Combat Casting will come in more effectively. And if you're going to say "But it's useless" I'll just come back and say "Since when is a Feat that allows you to cast - when your backed into a corner, your fighter/front line defenders failed to stop the attackers, or when your grappled at a higher modifier for the roll- useless?" I've heard the arguments before and have given examples from personal experience on how it came in useful.
