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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 9:21AM
#41
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Well, I'd defintely go for Chameleon, but I'd likely focus on more of a Combat/Arcane Focus. Heroism is a great spell with a Rod of Extend Spell for the Chameleon - +2 to skills, saves, and attack rolls is pretty useful.
aye race of Destiny is usable in living greyHawk but not the presistant feat; its 28 pts buy and level 16 max.
so do you think the Zen Cam is still worth it?
(magic enh are rather scares as well as gold)
tks
gregoire
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 10:08AM
#42
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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A is almost correct. The Divine Crusader, the class does not have a class spell list. Or they do, with 0 spells in it. There is no spell that every spellcasting capable member of the class, Divine Crusader, can cast. Each member of the class then gets to add 9 spells to this list for their personal set of spells known based on their domain choice. Which is really little different than how a Wizard who takes Arcane Disciple or gains a domain gets to add 9 spells to their own spell list.
Look at your quote that I bolded above. By your definition, DivCru does not have a Spell List. When in fact, it does. If it did not, the DrivCru either: (A) Could not cast any spells ... or (B) Could cast *ALL* the spells in the game.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 10:37AM
#43
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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great compilation, mommy. i just replaced my dead bard with your rogue+ftr chameleon, its a blast to play. i wish i would have dumped charisma a little more. i just dont see turning undead to be worth it.
i ran the rules by my bro who is an english teacher and gamer. he agrees with snow that its a gray area but every spelcaster HAS to have a spell list. divine crusader has its spell list although its got a different way of working. we have a divine crusader in our party thats why im interested.
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 11:05AM
#44
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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offtopic
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 11:51AM
#45
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2001
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I'm not arguing here that an individual Divine Crusader doesn't have a spell list(though I actually think that's the intent of the word effectively)
I'm arguing that they don't have a class spell list - there's no spell that all Divine Crusaders can cast. Chameleons can only cast off of class spell lists.[/quote]
You just supported my argument, MwaO.
As your quoted last sentence stated, " ... Chameleons can only cast off of class spell lists. " ...... which means your "individual" prefix argument on DivCru's spell list parameters doesn't apply. Because *some* DivCru's can cast a given domain spell while some can't. Chameleons don't care, they can simulate all or any divine or arcane spellcaster's spell list. And that's that.
Besides, the basic premise of the Chameleon is to emulate or copycat other classes "class abilities", including a *HUGE* breadth of different spellcaster "spell lists". Why would a given Cham be able to simultaneously emulate spell class access to classes as rare and specialized as a Demonologist (BoVD) and Champion of Gwynharyf (BoED) ... but not domain spells ?? Of course, this paragraph is more a fluff issue, than a crunch one.
XO,
Snow 
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 12:06PM
#46
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Thanks.
I'm not arguing here that an individual Divine Crusader doesn't have a spell list(though I actually think that's the intent of the word effectively)
I'm arguing that they don't have a class spell list - there's no spell that all Divine Crusaders can cast. Chameleons can only cast off of class spell lists.[/quote]
That seems to be like arguing that sorcerers don't have a spell list becuase there is no spell all sorcerers can cast. All sorcerers can choose any spell on their list, just as a Divine Crusader can choose any domain.
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 2:19PM
#47
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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offtopic
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 2:22PM
#48
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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All Sorcerers can cast any Sorcerer spell - they just need a scroll or trigger item to do it with - even if they don't know it.
That seems to be like arguing that sorcerers don't have a spell list becuase there is no spell all sorcerers can cast. All sorcerers can choose any spell on their list, just as a Divine Crusader can choose any domain.
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 2:35PM
#49
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2004
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Mommy was an Orc can you start a new thread to debate this feature, this thread is great as a build resource....it would be a pain if it got too cluttered with debates.
you also need to ADD this to your first post.
Warlocks get disguise and bluff as class skills
heres another build:
The Dark Chameleon
Warlock 8/ Chameleon 8..................the first/last 4 levels can be any full BAB class
+16 BAB
4d6 Eldrich Blast
DR, Fast Heal 1
cast 5th lvl spls
Caster lvl 20th (with practiced caster)
take 10 on UMD
:D
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8 years ago ::
Jan 13, 2005 - 3:32PM
#50
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Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2003
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Hmm... something just occured to me. It says in the chameleon class description that he has a caster level of twice his class level. Does that mean that a Rogue 3/Ftr 2/Chameleon 10 has a caster level of 20 at character level 15? If it does - whoa.
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