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Karla wrote:

From what you are saying, the situation is that provided the script is written in a language you can read, a character of any class of any level can ready a maneuver (or stance) of any level from that script with no chance of failure?

Or put another way, a (say) 1st level wizard finds it easier (100% chance of success) to activate a 9th level martial maneuver from a script than he does to cast a 2nd level arcane spell from a scroll!!!

Sorry to keep bothering but can you please confirm with your team/seniors that this is really the intent of the rules here? That there really is meant to be no initiator level or class/school limitation or success chance when using scripts?


He has a good point that they're costed as potions which likewise have no class or level limits. However from a flavour viewpoint I can't help thinking there should be both scroll-equivalents (scripts) and potion-equivalents (which could I suppose easily be potions!) rather than this odd crossover.

*jaw drops*

Um...wow.

9th level maneuver, IL 20:
20 x 9 x 50 = 9,000gp.

A seventh level character could easily have one and still have gp for some nice gear. 9th level maneuver, at IL 20...such as Feral Death Blow. Save or die (DC of roughly 23ish), or 20d6 damage. That's just wrong.

The other nasty 9th level maneuvers at that level are Inferno Blast, Strike of Perfect Clarity, and War Master's Charge. Mostly because a good portion of CR 7 monsters don't have quite that much HP.

That is roughly the upper limit of abusability, though. One-hit kills are really nice, but it's not like we could make Pun-Pun out of this.

Roanth wrote:

So, does anyone know why the Swordsage doesn't have Spot as a class skill considering that it does have Listen, Hide, and Move Silently?

Balancing point? The same reason that barbarians only have Listen? Hard to say, but I don't think it is an error since it has been done before.

mrfish wrote:

I have two questions that I cant seem to find any good answers to. First off, the feat shadow blade, on the feat lists it says that it replaces dex with str to dmg with shadow weapons, but the feat itself says that you simply add dex as abonus (nothing about replacing) what is right?

Second is a maneuver question; the feat searing blade is a boost and on page 42 it says that boost allways requires swift actions yet the maneuver itself says it requires a standard action? The only other boost that does not require a swift action is boulder roll and that seems to be because of the overrun attack.

Shadow Blade adds Dex to damage in addition to Strength until errata is released saying otherwise (which may not ever happen).

Boosts are always swift actions, Searing Blade has a typo.

When trading maneuvers with these class abilities the previous maneuver will count toward the prerequisite for the upgraded ability.

So.... You can, in fact, open a locked box by using the key that's inside it.
Even levels of initiator classes just got much more useful in my eyes, wonderful. :D

Am I misunderstanding the issue? I have always assumed, following something I read on these boards, that the swapped maneuver could not be used to qualify for itself.
With this ruling, if you have to have three maneuvers already to qualify to take a maneuver, you could have them, give one away, "locking the box", but unlock the box with the maneuver you pick up, even though the maneuver is inside the box.

Don't get me wrong, this makes perfect sense to me, both thematically and in balance terms, it just makes maneuvers much easier to progress, which in turn leaves more maneuvers to qualify for other maneuvers, which are also easier to progress et cetera.