Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm ...That's funny. You mean to tell me that you've been arguing for Dark Sun & Spelljammer crossovers without knowing either setting? No offense, but... wow.
I know Dark Sun because I have "Preservers and Defilers", "Veiled Alliance", "Mind Lords of the Last Sea", "Dragon Kings" and also played the "Wake of the Ravager" and "Crimson Sands" that had little "history books" in the Game.
The "Spelljammer" Athas part comes from the supplement book I read in the Used Book Store and talked about the "LifeMasters" that were the "Creator Race" that predated even the Halfling Rule in the "Blue Age"....though technically the Re...Re... the "high tech" Halflings were just another "engineered" race much like the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen though it was the Halflings playing with forces they didn't fully understand from their former masters that caused the "Green Age" and the various "mutations" that created the other races.
Because of the all the Ships over Athas. some with "out of it" "Lifemasters" populating the bigger ones a "rebellion" was unlikely and is as much of a mystery of the coming of the "Grey" and "Black" when the Sun was first sucked of life which turned it from Blue to Yellow.
I just gotta find that book
But Most "History" has a Fallen civilization or 2 under it's belt when you think of it.
I am playing Neverwinter Nights right now and the "Forgotten Realms" seems to have 2 fallen civilizations as well which are the "Netheril Empire" and the older Civilization of the "Creator Race" of Toril which are Lizard-like Humanoids (Raphael?)
Even the "Source" of all D&D....Tolkien's "Middle Earth" (As the Creators of D&D were "Lord of the Rings" and "War in Middle Earth" fans) has lots of fallen and ancient civilizations laid to waste
The thing about it is this - you are making claims to these "Lifemasters", of which *nobody* has heard of here until you mentioned it. Many of the people who post in this forum have been dealing with Dark Sun since it's release, and many of us have all of the Dark Sun gaming books & novels, as well as several have all of the material from Dragon and Dungeon magazines. And yet, curiously enough, you keep referencing something we haven't heard of before - and keep stating it as fact, with nothing to back up your claim. People have suggested that you just *might* have muddled up your information quite a bit, and have been hoping that you'd eventually concur. Rather, you keep referring to these "lifemasters" as if they are an absolute, and then are trying to connect Dark Sun with Spelljammer - a game you have admittedly stated you don't know much of anything about.
Pyreen originated in the Green Age. Thri-Kreen (well, the original, non-sentient variety) and the "civilized" Halflings originated in the Blue Age. There are thousands of years between these two events, and yet you keep connecting them as if they are one in the same. The other races of Athas showed up after the PRistine Tower was used, a time known as the Rebirth, where Elves, Humans, Dwarves, etc. as well as Pyreen were a part of. The life-draining magic of which you attribute to your so-called "Lifemasters" wasn't invented/developed until *after* this rebirth by a twisted and mangled up Pyreen known as Rajaat.
The Halflings of the Blue Age had Nature-masters and Nature-benders, the first having the full knowledge for making life-shaped creatures, of which the Rhulisti in the modern age are the only society to still use (or even know of) these things. Their ability didn't drain life-energy, it reshaped creatures, a sort of bio-technology. The Nature-benders were a corrupt group of Halflings that were banned from the resot of Halfling Society, and of which I believe are the reason the Thri-Kreen became sentient, and had re-shaped themselves into what eventually was known as the Zik-Chil, or Priests of Change for the Tohr-Kreen Empire in modern Athasian times.
With no evidence, not even a reference other than some obscure and vague "book found in an old used bookstore", your case has no merit. However, if you wish to significantly change Dark Sun for your own campaigns, have at it, but please, don't state it as if it is how everyone uses the campaign.
It gives a very brief breakdown of the SJ universe (and some of the rules). The first section, entitled "The Universe", would probably answer most of your questions, while the rest can give you a basic overview of the SJ rules and how they work. I certainly would explain it better than I can.
Thank you, that was most interesting.
Looked like they built on the "Immortal Campaigns" (D&D Player's guide to Immortals, D&D DM's Guide to Immorals) when they were talking about how not all gods are equal and can lose power or have limited powers between realities, the common association with language and beings on different worlds, and "the flow" sounding a lot like "the land beyond" and the "Crystal Gates" that the gods used to move the different races from Realm to Realm during "the the Great Migration" :D
But, yeah the "Lifemasters" ships were called "spelljammers" but they were more like "living creatures" with magic and technology all mixed together and the Illustration showed a more "space Ship" looking craft that was like a Tear drop shape with the front being the teared point and embitterments (weapons) running across the front and sides (kinda like those Imperial cruisers in Star wars) then a Sail ship flying in space like on that board
I've actually gone through some extensive, exhaustive, and quite comprehesive listings for any product that could possibly fit the description of this so called DS+SJ book that Overlord is refering to. Alas, I've come up short.
Since, especially if this were so rare a book that no one out of some two dozen or so rabbid fanboys and fangirls has ever heard of it, its highly unlikely that the bookstore would still have a copy. Something this rare would likely fly off a shelf quicker than signed copy of Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium (and trust me, that's rare). If your going to stick to quoting this reference, please, please, please, take a few minutes out of your day and do a little searching for it on the web, if for no other reason than to give yourself piece of mind that your memory isn't starting to go out on you just yet . There are a good amount of websites that list every single book ever released for the RPG industry, normally catagorized by publisher, setting, and then some. The search would not take very long since you would know what to look for a little better than I. And please don't come back and say that a certain website, which lists each and every seperate printing of each and every RPG book published to date just happens not to have this one book listed. If so, then your in for . . . something. Something bad. And mean. Yeah, something bad-mean (<--- humor).
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm The thing about it is this - you are making claims to these "Lifemasters", of which *nobody* has heard of here until you mentioned it. Many of the people who post in this forum have been dealing with Dark Sun since it's release, and many of us have all of the Dark Sun gaming books & novels, as well as several have all of the material from Dragon and Dungeon magazines. And yet, curiously enough, you keep referencing something we haven't heard of before - and keep stating it as fact, with nothing to back up your claim. People have suggested that you just *might* have muddled up your information quite a bit, and have been hoping that you'd eventually concur. Rather, you keep referring to these "lifemasters" as if they are an absolute, and then are trying to connect Dark Sun with Spelljammer - a game you have admittedly stated you don't know much of anything about.
Pyreen originated in the Green Age. Thri-Kreen (well, the original, non-sentient variety) and the "civilized" Halflings originated in the Blue Age. There are [b]thousands of years between these two events, and yet you keep connecting them as if they are one in the same. The other races of Athas showed up after the PRistine Tower was used, a time known as the Rebirth, where Elves, Humans, Dwarves, etc. as well as Pyreen were a part of. The life-draining magic of which you attribute to your so-called "Lifemasters" wasn't invented/developed until *after* this rebirth by a twisted and mangled up Pyreen known as Rajaat.
The Halflings of the Blue Age had Nature-masters and Nature-benders, the first having the full knowledge for making life-shaped creatures, of which the Rhulisti in the modern age are the only society to still use (or even know of) these things. Their ability didn't drain life-energy, it reshaped creatures, a sort of bio-technology. The Nature-benders were a corrupt group of Halflings that were banned from the resot of Halfling Society, and of which I believe are the reason the Thri-Kreen became sentient, and had re-shaped themselves into what eventually was known as the Zik-Chil, or Priests of Change for the Tohr-Kreen Empire in modern Athasian times.
With no evidence, not even a reference other than some obscure and vague "book found in an old used bookstore", your case has no merit. However, if you wish to significantly change Dark Sun for your own campaigns, have at it, but please, don't state it as if it is how everyone uses the campaign. [/b]
No, the "Lifemasters" are the "Creator Race" and disapeared long before the Blue Age Halflings that were Lifebenders ruled
The "Lifemasters" engineered the Halfings "in thier image" and also the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen and they were servant/slaves to the "Lifemasters".
A Rebelion against the "Lifemasters" or them leaving/fleeing is unlikely as the fleet ships over Athas still has small colonies of "Lifemasters" that don't seem to know anthing about who they are or even how to use the ship they are on (Bigger "colony" type ships that provides norishment/life support for it's passagers as part of " it's lasts orders" )
Short of trying to recite the whole book I am only answering the questions in relation what is already posted
Originally posted by Mach2.5 I've actually gone through some extensive, exhaustive, and quite comprehesive listings for any product that could possibly fit the description of this so called DS+SJ book that Overlord is refering to. Alas, I've come up short.
Since, especially if this were so rare a book that no one out of some two dozen or so rabbid fanboys and fangirls has ever heard of it, its highly unlikely that the bookstore would still have a copy. Something this rare would likely fly off a shelf quicker than signed copy of Dune: Chronicles of the Imperium (and trust me, that's rare). If your going to stick to quoting this reference, please, please, please, take a few minutes out of your day and do a little searching for it on the web, if for no other reason than to give yourself piece of mind that your memory isn't starting to go out on you just yet . There are a good amount of websites that list every single book ever released for the RPG industry, normally catagorized by publisher, setting, and then some. The search would not take very long since you would know what to look for a little better than I. And please don't come back and say that a certain website, which lists each and every seperate printing of each and every RPG book published to date just happens not to have this one book listed. If so, then your in for . . . something. Something bad. And mean. Yeah, something bad-mean (<--- humor).
Nah,
Me quoting the reference isn't even related to the topic which is about a Crossover.
As cool as it is "Cannon" would say no Spelljamming is allowed cause the "Black" and "Grey" is impassable by Spelljammers
Originally posted by The WarOverlord No, the "Lifemasters" are the "Creator Race" and disapeared long before the Blue Age Halflings that were Lifebenders ruled
The "Lifemasters" engineered the Halfings "in thier image" and also the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen and they were servant/slaves to the "Lifemasters".
A Rebelion against the "Lifemasters" or them leaving/fleeing is unlikely as the fleet ships over Athas still has small colonies of "Lifemasters" that don't seem to know anthing about who they are or even how to use the ship they are on (Bigger "colony" type ships that provides norishment/life support for it's passagers as part of " it's lasts orders" )
Short of trying to recite the whole book I am only answering the questions in relation what is already posted
Ok.... once again. I'll try to see if I can get through to you and your rather siognificant flaw in thinking. If the Lifemasters made the Halflings, Pyreen and Thri-Kreen, as you say. Please explain to me why it was they waited...... thousands of years, more like thens of thousands of years between making the Halfings and Thri-Kreen before making the Pyreen?
Why is it that there is nothing (as in nadda, nil, nix) for Dark Sun or Spelljammer that has been found that even remotely gives evidence to what you are saying? You are expecting the rest of us to go on faith alone that you have seen this book, and that you can recall it with crystal clarity (and yet, cannot recall the name of said book at all)? And that this book seemingly contradicts everything that has been presented in the Dark Sun campaign setting - so much that it seemingly invalidates entire sections of gaming books in their entirety (like the timeline found in the Wanderer's Chronicle), or other materials for Dark Sun (like the "official" timeline for Dark Sun)?
I just have one thing to say about that.....
"Joseph Smith was called a prophet, dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb..." (ref: South Park)
(no offence intended to those Mormon readers out there, purely using the South Park humor to make a point)
Originally posted by xlorepdarkhelm Ok.... once again. I'll try to see if I can get through to you and your rather siognificant flaw in thinking. If the Lifemasters made the Halflings, Pyreen and Thri-Kreen, as you say. Please explain to me why it was they waited...... thousands of years, more like thens of thousands of years between making the Halfings and Thri-Kreen before making the Pyreen?
Why is it that there is [b]nothing (as in nadda, nil, nix) for Dark Sun or Spelljammer that has been found that even remotely gives evidence to what you are saying? You are expecting the rest of us to go on faith alone that you have seen this book, and that you can recall it with crystal clarity (and yet, cannot recall the name of said book at all)? And that this book seemingly contradicts everything that has been presented in the Dark Sun campaign setting - so much that it seemingly invalidates entire sections of gaming books in their entirety (like the timeline found in the Wanderer's Chronicle), or other materials for Dark Sun (like the "official" timeline for Dark Sun)?
Originally posted by The WarOverlord No, the "Lifemasters" are the "Creator Race" and disapeared long before the Blue Age Halflings that were Lifebenders ruled
The "Lifemasters" engineered the Halfings "in thier image" and also the Pyreen and Tri-Kreen and they were servant/slaves to the "Lifemasters".
A Rebelion against the "Lifemasters" or them leaving/fleeing is unlikely as the fleet ships over Athas still has small colonies of "Lifemasters" that don't seem to know anthing about who they are or even how to use the ship they are on (Bigger "colony" type ships that provides norishment/life support for it's passagers as part of " it's lasts orders" )
Wow, that's a vivid imagination. Few things: 1) The only setting the term Creator Race has ever been used was in Forgotten Realms.
2) This lifemaster rebelleon sounds a little like the Reigar Master Stroke, in which the Reigar (an artistic race that owns living ships) blew up their homeworld. Of course, the question is, will your memory change again, given that when I pointed out that your Athas Defense Fleet sounded more like an untrelated entry from a totally different book, the ships mysteriously went from 300' to 3 miles in size.
Me quoting the reference isn't even related to the topic which is about a Crossover.
You quoting the reference is, however, related to your credibility, which rates a big, fat zero at the moment. Your melding of these ideas is quite interesting, and watching you run round in circles trying to rationalise and re-rationalise all of your various thoughts is highly amusing. But it doesn't change the fact that you are full of doo-doo.
But please don't stop - really. I am coming to rely on these daily doses of dementia to keep my own at bay
. There are a good amount of websites that list every single book ever released for the RPG industry, normally catagorized by publisher, setting, and then some. The search would not take very long since you would know what to look for a little better than I. And please don't come back and say that a certain website, which lists each and every seperate printing of each and every RPG book published to date just happens not to have this one book listed. If so, then your in for . . . something. Something bad. And mean. Yeah, something bad-mean (<--- humor).
