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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 12:02AM
#21
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I'll have to take your word for that, but still, an initiative penalty is hardly going to have much of an effect after battle is started, and usually it would affect your allies more than monsters, because your allies are often close at the beginning of a battle.
The initiative penalty only occurs if you defile as you cast. If you defile at the time of preparation, then the effects of defiling on living creatures does not actually matter in combat.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 12:07AM
#22
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hmmm. Sounds pretty boring.
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Claytonian
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 1:02AM
#23
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hmmm. Sounds pretty boring.
Defiler magic wasn't meant to have dramatic game-altering effects tacked onto it. Defiler magic had larger game world ramifications and roleplaying effects than it did mechanical ones. Mechanically the benefits were rather minor*. In the game world, however, it had the catastrophic effect of tearing all life out of the nearby environment, leaving a circular scar which would take years to replenish and heal. The entire planet of Athas is a testament of just how dramatic defiler magic can alter the landscape. Dark Sun is a setting in which hope is a myth, and people have largely accepted that everyone is doomed. Defiler magic is key to that theme. Not everything that's important in a roleplaying game needs to have uber-powerful in-game mechanics, especially focal plot elements.
*: Minor doesn't apply to every advantage of being a defiler. There's still the fact that you level up definitively faster in comparison to a preserver in 2nd Edition. Moreover, the ability to slow your enemies and gain significantly more spells per day had its uses. Plus, the psychological effects of watching someone defile the earth to cast a spell often had huge effects on morale.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 6:14AM
#24
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Dark Sun is about five things: environmentalism, psionics, powergaming, deserts, and lots of really big insects. It's a lot like that segment "Den" from Heavy Metal - lots of hairless over-muscled dudes riding wasps across the wasteland to get the Loc-nar (obsidian orbs) for the evil queen (of Gulg?). I think there's even a nightmare beast in that segment ("they speak of a beast that prowls these catacombs with teeth six inches long... correction, sixTEEN inches.")
I see templars and defilers as being NPC-only; they had that Thief XP advancement in 2e, and I never liked the 3e version from Dragon magazine. Preservers are just core wizards. However they do it, they have to know that players quite often like to play evil characters, so alignment restrictions are not the way to go.
I don't see how the super-powered characters will fit in 4e. Half giants and thri-kreen will probably get even more nerfed than they were in 3e.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 6:34AM
#25
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Once again, I think it's gotta be available to everyone, unless the DM says nay. Recent editions are about options. Speaking of which, I think monsterous races are much easer to use these days.
Stupidity and alien mindsets should be acted out, says I.
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Claytonian
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 7:02AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2005
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@Decivre, I just think they will come up with some reasons why there are new races. The world will still be similar but it will fit into 4Es ways of doing things. I am sure gamers who hate the changes of some of it can just ignore it like any other RPG.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 7:34AM
#27
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I don't see how the super-powered characters will fit in 4e. Half giants and thri-kreen will probably get even more nerfed than they were in 3e.
One of the defining themes of 4e is that "Awesome comes from flavor, not mechanics." I hope that a WotC DS product follows that simple prescription.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 2:23PM
#28
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@Decivre, I just think they will come up with some reasons why there are new races. The world will still be similar but it will fit into 4Es ways of doing things. I am sure gamers who hate the changes of some of it can just ignore it like any other RPG.
There's already a way they can... I mean it's theoretically possible to explain away any race being there thanks to the Planar Gate. It can grant access to any plane outside of those within the confines of Athas... theoretically to other campaign settings. However, there's really no way for them to reintroduce other fantasy races outside that method... most of the intelligent life on Athas was slain by the Champions of Rajaat, such as kobolds, ogres, trolls, orcs, gnomes, wemics, lizard men (which might have included dragonborn if they did exist at some point), pixies, goblins, and centaurs. All of them were wiped to extinction, and potentially more (I don't know if they've ever specified an upward limit on the number of Champions that existed).
So it's possible to plug in any character with a "you step out of the Planar Gate into Athas", but they won't be able to plug new races in without some dramatic world-altering shift, potentially greater than the one that occurred on Forgotten Realms.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 17, 2008 - 3:43PM
#29
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Date Joined:
Sep 12, 2008
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It's Dark Sun. Any race can be a long-lost holdout from the Pristine Tower, with Athas-appropriate fluff. Literally any race you can think of, be it mammalian, reptilian, amphibious, insectoid, amoebic, whatever. The sheer number of spontaneous mutations in the novels alone by the Tower is ample evidence that any sort of species would be possible. It's like an ongoing Tower of Babel, but for genetic code rather than language. Add in the Planar Gate, add in the Nightmare Gate, add in the Crimson Monolith, and just about anything you can think of is accessible, albeit with a Dark Sun twist.
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5 years ago ::
Nov 18, 2008 - 5:56AM
#30
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2005
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There's already a way they can... I mean it's theoretically possible to explain away any race being there thanks to the Planar Gate. It can grant access to any plane outside of those within the confines of Athas... theoretically to other campaign settings. However, there's really no way for them to reintroduce other fantasy races outside that method... most of the intelligent life on Athas was slain by the Champions of Rajaat, such as kobolds, ogres, trolls, orcs, gnomes, wemics, lizard men (which might have included dragonborn if they did exist at some point), pixies, goblins, and centaurs. All of them were wiped to extinction, and potentially more (I don't know if they've ever specified an upward limit on the number of Champions that existed).
Are there any other continents on Athas that might hold those "extinct" races? Perhaps that info of their demise was wrong and they all went into hiding, maybe in the underdark or some other area.
I do not think they will touch 2Es Realms Space Athas Space concept. I think every setting will be it's own universe and the DMs can link them if they choose.
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