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10 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2003 - 12:15AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2003
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Interesting idea, but unlikely given that the Rilmani aren't the original True Neutral race of exemplars to inhabit the Outlands. The Kamerel lived at the base of the spire before the Rilmani, who displaced them and became the dominany race of exemplars. Both likely 'native' to the plane, but being two diametrically opposed examples of the abstract concept of true neutrality.
Maybe the Kamerel themselves aren't the first. Who knows? *grin*
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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10 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2003 - 2:50AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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An article I found on the Mirmir which is loosely related to this topic. http://mimir.net/musee/shame.html
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10 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2003 - 6:17PM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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There is mention of some strange 'giants' in Carceri. Giants which no one can tell if they're dead or still alive. Fiends supposedly fear the place where their bodies are. It could be a link to the Ancient Baatorians maybe?
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10 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2003 - 6:35PM
#14
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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Interesting. So, if that article is to be believed, the baatezu created Ilsensine. Then, the writer suggests that Her Serenity is responsible for the rise of the baatezu. I would personally attribute that to being screed. I doubt the Lady has any interests in the rise of anything outside her city.
Dackad, you do pose an interesting point. Any surviving ancients could very well be in Carceri, though I do not know they have any relation to the giants you are speaking of.
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10 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2003 - 6:46PM
#15
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2003
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Hmm... any idea where the bit about the beings in Carceri was originally?
Certainly there's a subtext of an ancient race of titans in the outer planes, if we take the ruins within Pelion in Arborea as an example, as well as some of the legends surrounding Howler's Crag in Pandemonium (as well as the fact that the tunnels of the plane appear hand carved, and then there's the inner planar legends of The Sleeping Ones, said to be titanic beings locked inside the glaciers of the paraplane of ice, normally confused for mountains such is their size.
Of course, all of these might simply be confusion among many different things. Though to be truthful, the ruins of Pelion contained magic capable of slaying powers with but a single word. Whomever they were, they left behind a legacy within the ruins of their towers and plazas.
One might also attempt to connect The Loadstones of Misery to this, but in that latter case, I'd personally connect those mysteries of the Grey Waste to the Baernaloth rather than some other race, especially given the primal nature of the Baern as it is.
What this 'loth wouldn't do to get her claws on the dark of it all...
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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10 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2003 - 8:39PM
#16
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2009
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Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Hmm... any idea where the bit about the beings in Carceri was originally?
Planes of Conflict, under the Gallowsgaunt entry of Carceri. Basically, a small town called Gallowsgaunt exists amongst a bunch of hanging, supposedly dead, giant bodies. Fiends fear the place and some speculate that the giants aren't dead at all, just sleeping.
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10 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2003 - 10:01PM
#17
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2003
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Thanks Dackad, I'll look it up. *tips razorvine tiara* Sounds like a mighty interesting place.
In general, regardless of origin, Carceri is a cesspool of the condemned, forgotten and imprisoned. From Apomps the rogue Baernaloth and his children the Gehreleths, to the Titans of Mount Othrys, to the contents of the Ship of One Hundred, to the rumored beings that inhabit the infinite void between the distinct orbs of the plane (sound Lovecraftian anyone?) there's a ton of beings of power locked away in Carceri and denied a goodly portion of the power they might have if released from their chains (even the self imposed chains on some).
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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10 years ago ::
Sep 10, 2003 - 4:12AM
#18
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2002
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Originally posted by puk
Others might represent concepts such as betrail, war, vengance, or lack of mercy (I'm trying to find a better word for that one. mercilessness?).
Ruthlessness.
Wyvern
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10 years ago ::
Sep 10, 2003 - 4:31AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Oct 23, 2002
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Originally posted by Tertek
Anyway, here's where I'm going with that. There really isn't a lot of dark (and correct me if I'm wrong) on any indigenous Gehenna life. Nobody's found any ruins (or if they have, they're not talking) or any traces of sentient fiendish life native to Gehenna.
If there ever were any ruins, I would think that the perpetual lava flows would have wiped them out.
Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder
Interesting idea, but unlikely given that the Rilmani aren't the original True Neutral race of exemplars to inhabit the Outlands. The Kamerel lived at the base of the spire before the Rilmani, who displaced them and became the dominany race of exemplars. Both likely 'native' to the plane, but being two diametrically opposed examples of the abstract concept of true neutrality.
Kamerel? First I've heard of them. What book are they in?
Originally posted by Dackad
There is mention of some strange 'giants' in Carceri. Giants which no one can tell if they're dead or still alive. Fiends supposedly fear the place where their bodies are. It could be a link to the Ancient Baatorians maybe?
Sound more like titans to me.
Wyvern
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10 years ago ::
Sep 10, 2003 - 9:46AM
#20
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Date Joined:
Apr 21, 2003
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Any earlier ruins might still exist, but very likely only on the 4th layer of the plane, Krangath, which has long since burned itself out and lies dormant and largely frozen solid.
You're right about the lava flows and explosions on the other three layers though likely obliterating any ruins.
And the Kameral are detailed in the module 'Tales of the Infinate Staircase', its an interesting book, I highly recommend it. And as I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, there's a mention of one of the Ancient Baatorians in the book as well. (This immature one was gifted to an ignorant Kyton lord by an Ultraloth, the creature having been raised, apparently outside of Baator. Frightening consequence there.)
Shemeska the Marauder, Freelancer 5 / Yugoloth 10
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