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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 6:40AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2008
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Can we make up a list of lore changes between the editions?
- Dragonmarks are not exclusive to each race.
- The addition of Dragonborn, Deva, and other races. (Edited to remove mention of
Tieflings, which were always in the setting.)
- Tieflings had an empire in Sarlonna, but were run out of there by the Inspired.
- A half dozen Eladrin feyspires have been stuck in Eberron after the Mourning.
- Warforged can attach mundane equipment to their bodies, but now need to wear armor.
- Prices for the lightning rail and airships has been much reduced.
But what else? I am interested not only in what is entirely new, but also what is different now than it used to be.
I don't have the EPG yet myself (when I do get that and the Eberron Campaign Guide, they will be the only 4e purchases I'll make, since D&D's "evolution" is going too fast for me to keep up while winning the money game. In other words, I can't play WotC's game and the money game at the same time at present). So I can't comment on what I like and don't like.
I'm busily adapting the setting to another system (Rolemaster Fantasy Roleplaying). The adaptation is designed to be close to the 3.5e version as possible with a little bit of changes in the Arts of Mars department (actually there were very little mention of the Arts of Mars in Eberron 3.5: I just statted up about sixteen of them so far. I bet I have barely scratched the surface).
All in all, I like most of the changes I've been seeing here. With the non-dragonmarked races having dragonmarks, it's easily explained within reason with shifters, changelings, and Kalashtar. A warforged, they are not so easily explained logically.
Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore. 
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 7:22AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2006
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Bobiago and Alex: You've both summed up both my personal preferences for a "PoL Eberron", and the message that I got from the EPG. I'm sure this will be even further emphasized/clarified in the ECG.
While reading the EPG, I had a thought that's tangentially tied to this idea. I don't think I ever really appreciated Karrnath's current plight, until now. The ECS talked about their struggles with famine and plague, and Forge of War really drove this point home. I got the impression that Karrnath would've run roughshod over everyone if not for a never-ending series of catastrophies that nearly brought them to ruin. Before the war, they seem to have been by far the strongest nation.
Now, though, they still struggle with famine and plague. I seemed to have missed that point until recently. I'm not sure if it just didn't find traction in my mind, or if this is a new, darker emphasis. It definitely brings a PoL feel to that nation, without changing any established history. Each nation will likewise have their issues.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 7:27AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2006
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This remains true in 4E. Ohr Kaluun wasn't a 100% tiefling empire; it was a nation whose ruling class INCLUDING tieflings as well as humans. The refugees that fled to the Demon Wastes included humans and tieflings, and thus you have both in the Demon Wastes today.
So it's new in that tieflings have a more notable place... but it's not a transformation of Ohr Kaluun from a human nation into a tiefling nation. Rather, it was a blended nation in which certain family lines became tieflings.
Whether this was outright stated in SoS (I can't recall), or it was simply a matter of interpretation, this is exactly how I'd been imagined Ohr Kaluun all along. It's cool to know that I'd correctly processed the original intent.
If this wasn't the original intent, then I chalk it up to my always finding a solid place for any playable race in my games (within reason). I haven't had to veto a PC, yet, but that's probably due to our group's overall shared vision of the setting's in which we play.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 7:37AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2006
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A warforged, they are not so easily explained logically.
I dread the day, should it come, that one of my players wants to play a marked Warforged. It will be the biggest clash of my personal taste vs. player's desire I've ever encountered.
I simply can't imagine why Warforged should be 'marked, other than allowing Warforged players and even field in terms of options. (I've weighed myriad explanations and possibilities, so no one waste his or her breath trying to sell me on the idea  .)
I think our entire group is in agreement on this point, and I fully anticipate a hell of a backstory should one of our guys/gal ever come to the table with such a character. Still, it would take one hell of a concept to make this work, in my mind. Likely, the baffling "WTF? feel" of it would have to be worked right into the backstory.
I could see my NPCs having a joke at the Warforged's expense because of his "painting a dragonmark on himself".
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 7:48AM
#35
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2008
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Now, though, they still struggle with famine and plague. I seemed to have missed that point until recently.
Plague and Famine can change a nation's culture drastically. From what I can understand from the evolution of culture in Ancient Times, there was a time when a more tolerant culture existed on the Earth. However, due to plague and famine came something of the opposite.
I think Karrnath's adoption of the Blood of Vol religion resembles this change. I also tend to think that Karrnathi culture is strongly patriarchal, even for a culture that is warlike. The Dark Side of Karrnath might not be the vampires, zombies, and skeletons; but in how families are raised. I find the new Karrnath after the War maybe more Spartan than we all realize.
To drive this point home, here's the write up I did on Karrnathi Swordsmanship.
KARRNATHI SWORDSMANSHIP
Advanced Weapon Style [50 style points]
Description --- Human Swordsmanship was first developed in Sarlona thousands of years ago. From the time that it came to the Lhaazar Principalities and into Karrnath it was developed into a dynamic, fluid, energetic art where a Karrn depended on his training in swordplay to protect him and his family from invaders. When Karrnathi was finally established, the art lived and thrived and took on a life of it's own during the War of the Mark. When the Kingdom of Galifar was established, Karrnathi Swordsmanship became the ancestor of all modern human Khorvairese weapon arts.
Recommended Skills --- War Mattock, Halberd, Broadsword, Dagger, Longsword, Short Sword, Falchion, Bastard Sword, Two-Handed Sword, Great Sword, Wrestling, Boxing, Adrenal Defense, Feinting, Disarm Foe [1h weapons and 2h weapons]
Weapon Style Abilities [Core] --- All bladed weapons [10 points], War Mattock [5 points], Halberd [5 points], Adrenal Defense, Lesser [10 points], Shield Training [20 points]
Special Ability ---
Half Swording --- A person trained in this art may use his sword as a Hammer or a Staff by holding the blade in his hands to defend himself or attack. Half-swording allows one to use Krush as an alternate critical at a -5 penalty (if one is using 2003 edition of Arms Law).
Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 8:04AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2006
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Plague and Famine can change a nation's culture drastically. From what I can understand from the evolution of culture in Ancient Times, there was a time when a more tolerant culture existed on the Earth. However, due to plague and famine came something of the opposite.
I think Karrnath's adoption of the Blood of Vol religion resembles this change. I also tend to think that Karrnathi culture is strongly patriarchal, even for a culture that is warlike. The Dark Side of Karrnath might not be the vampires, zombies, and skeletons; but in how families are raised. I find the new Karrnath after the War maybe more Spartan than we all realize.
This has some merit. The last bit immediately called to mind "Pater Familias", though that clearly doesn't encapsulate your entire point.
To drive this point home, here's the write up I did on Karrnathi Swordsmanship....
Pretty cool. I'm not familiar with the ruleset. I did know that you were working on a Rolemaster (?) conversion, though. The idea that the Karrns would preserve ancient traditions, particularly martial traditions, is strongly aligned with their established ethos.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 10:19AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Feb 17, 2008
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I call it an adaptation. It's not a straight conversion. :D To translate the style into Feat terms: * Combat Expertise * Feint * Disarm * Dodge * Power Attack * Weapon Focus (one sword weapon) * Shield Bash though that clearly doesn't encapsulate your entire point.
No, it does not. To be frank, a society that is starving and sick becomes a stoic violent society, at least according to one book that I've seen. Therefore, I wonder why the Blood of Vol is in Karrnath and the Church of the Silver Flame is in Thrane. The Blood of Vol isn't a stoic religion, while the Church of the Silver Flame has all the signs of being one. Vol's followers don't go around saying things that would come out of a mouth of a Jedi. More like they'd say things that would fall from the lips of Darth Plaugeis.
Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 2:02PM
#38
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Date Joined:
Dec 24, 2005
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This is a nice synopsis.
I'd add that the Deva/Rakshasa connection remains intact, and probably makes even more sense in Eberron than in any other setting. The EPG says (paraphrased) "just as the Demons had Rakshasa allies, the couatls had allies--spirits of light in mortal form". As NthDegree says, they're extremely uncommon (as in the core fluff), and their history is long-forgotten by most.
I think I've finally decided my first Eberron PC will be a Deva Avenger of the Silver Flame (likely unaffiliated with the modern church, at least initially). He'll awaken in Coldflame Keep in Sharn, where Mazin Tana was told to expect him by a stranger who seemed to be one of the Purified.
Though the connection to the Silver Flame is an obvious choice in an Eberron campaign, a Deva PC could be drawn to any goodly faith or philosophy.
One of my players is playing a invoker deva and he has yet to settle on religion until we get the EPG. He had expressed an interest in following the Silver Flame but pointed out that the PHB states the deva only follow the "old gods" and the Flame is a "new god". I pointed out that to the common races the Silver Flame was a new god but that did not have to be the case for him.
I would love to have a Follower of the Silver Flame in the party but he still seems skeptical. So I can't wait to get my hands on the new EPG and ECG to see if there are new ideas on incorporating devas and Eberron faiths.
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 2:13PM
#39
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2004
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theshard, the Silver Flame is actually an extremely old "god," as in it has existed since the Age of Demons. The silver flame was originally born of the sacrifice of the cautle's (spelling?) to defeat the Demons and imprison them in Khyber. It was the tool that was used to defeat the Demons back in the Age of Demons. What is new is the Church of the Silver Flame as worshiped by Thrane. However, there are other cultures devoted to the original Silver Flame. There is a yun-ti (spelling?) culture that worships an original form of the Silver Flame. Additionally, I vaguely remember the possibility original Silver Flame worship going on somewhere in Xen'Drik. So, that Deva worshiping the original Silver Flame, and not necessarily in the theological formation proposed by the Church of Thrane, is perfectly reasonable...
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4 years ago ::
Jun 21, 2009 - 2:36PM
#40
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- Eberron Designer
- Moo, Baby, Moo
Date Joined:
Dec 11, 2002
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He had expressed an interest in following the Silver Flame but pointed out that the PHB states the deva only follow the "old gods" and the Flame is a "new god". I pointed out that to the common races the Silver Flame was a new god but that did not have to be the case for him.
Certainly - the Church of the Silver Flame is simply the most recent church to draw on the power of the Silver Flame, but you've got the shulassakar, the people of Khalesh, the orcs of the Demon Wastes... and those are just ones we've described so far.
Beyond that, I wouldn't be too limited by the PHB description of a class. I played a deva avenger who we defined as a human peasant who was serving as a host to a host of restless spirits seeking vengeance against the cult that had slain them. My Memories of a Thousand Lives were actually the shadows of THEIR memories, and my powers weren't from any god, but rather reflected the host of ghosts empowering me. So technically I was a deva, and technically I was an avenger, but I wasn't actualy serving a god and I didn't have white and purple skin.
All I'm saying is that the core books (and any books for that matter) should serve as inspiration as opposed to restriction. Looking to 3.5 Eberron, the quote in the begining of the book is that you should be able to find a plae for anything in Eberron, but you may want to change it to fit the tone of the setting.
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